Speaker 2 0:00

Hello, this is Rambles and Shambles with Anna. Today I'm sitting with Zdenka. We met in 2019 at a summit, which at some point involved dancing on and around tables. She gives a good backhand slap if you're being cheeky and is deeply passionate about culture and tradition.

Speaker 1 0:17

But before we get into the grown-up stuff, what is one of your favourite memories as a kid? When my dad used to take me to the conservatorium with music to do my exams.

Speaker 0:27

Exams for piano. Uh it'd be a very special day. That was probably one of my favourite memories with him.

Speaker 1 0:34

Was it the drive or we got a train?

Speaker 0:36

You got to catch a train. He would take me. Because my mum would do everything with us all the time, like he never used to because he used to work a lot.

Speaker 1 0:44

So that was really special when he got to pay for it. Yeah, he used to do that as a special thing for us. Yeah. Very close to my father. So what kind of uh house did you grow up in?

Speaker 2 0:54

What was the general feel day to day?

Speaker 0:56

Well, okay. Well, Tata was very strict. He was like a military person, to be honest. He used to time us when we'd get ready to get up to go to school. I had a twin and so who was winning that that time? Of course you did. I was always winning um at things like that. My sister used to be a bit slower, but God knows she's pretty strong now. But um back then I was the one who was loud and proud and middle child, probably syndrome. We had a younger sister as well, she was nine years younger. She's a force to be reckoned with now. So were you the bossy one growing up, even though you were the middle kid? I think I was bossy in certain things. Um, but I used to always like to please. I used to love to please my mum. I'd like to do everything, but I was also very cheeky. I always used to like to learn. I had a real curiosity to learn things. We had a next door neighbor who taught me how to crochet.

Speaker 2 1:52

Oh wow.

Speaker 1:53

My mum taught me how to knit, but she did the European starting way, and I could never get it. And the other lady did the uh knit pearl, knit pearl. I don't know if that even makes sense, but I used to like to cook, singing, singing was my mum did a lot with us. She made us do a lot. I think she wanted us to become stars in something. We did everything dancing, jazz, tap, ballet, creation school, sport we weren't allowed to do on a Saturday. We had to do creation school.

Speaker 2 2:20

Yeah. You said that your father was quite strict. Did your house feel structured and less relaxed?

Speaker 2:26

Our house, we weren't allowed to come downstairs in pyjamas. Like we had a single house first and then we had to build. Tato always wanted a garage, so he built a back shed which we lived in. I've got to say, some of that was fun, some of it wasn't, because you know, you had a shed that we're all living in, and then they had a laundry and a bathroom, separate, like separate shed that they made. It was nuts. Growing up was pretty simple. My sister and I we used to go on wheelbarrow. Tata and mama used to make us squeeze grapes, squash them with our feet. I remember they were all purple. She always wanted us to learn how to do something, but I always wanted to go out. And we weren't allowed to go out. Um, I remember when I was 13, I wanted to go to one of my best friends' parties or wasn't allowed to go. They were very conservative, but they would give the world for education and they would give the world for anything that you learn. So were you pretty sure of yourself in high school? So high school was let me go with the primary. Primary was hard because primary I did everything to please. So I even used to clean classrooms. But I'd say primary wasn't that easy. I used to get bullied a lot. Oh. Yeah. I used to get I used to have really long hair and my mum used to put my hair up in like not the braid but the plait that you put up. Kids would sometimes put their hands through it and and pull down. I know. It was stupid. It was dumb. And some of them weren't very nice. Mum used to make us take an eskey to school, something that now everyone would take, but back then, you know, I used to get called names like Denkarubbit, Wenka. Um, yeah.

Speaker 2 4:12

Wow.

Speaker 4:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2 4:14

Kids were mean.

Speaker 4:15

Yeah, they were mean. Yep. I didn't know how to speak English. I only knew how to speak Croatian. So yeah, we were made fun of. It wasn't fun.

Speaker 2 4:24

So that and the ESCI definitely probably cleaning the classroom.

Speaker 4:27

The Esky, cleaning the classroom. Yeah, I used to clean the classroom so I could- That'll get you bullied anywhere, regardless of who you speak English. I know. I used to clean it though because I was a clean freak. I just wanted everything to be clean.

Speaker 2 4:39

That's funny.

Speaker 4:39

I know. But the Esky was bad. We used to fight over who's going to take the Esky because there would be boys on the on the wall going, Denkera, but denkera, but rah-rah, rah. She's taking an Esky. I don't want to do it. This is this is what happened. I don't want to really remember it, but yeah, it did happen.

Speaker 2 4:57

That's part of life, you know. Yeah. You can't block things out. It just shapes you who you are today.

Speaker 5:02

Yeah. I always was quite studious in primary school. I was good mates with Mrs. Murphy. We used to call her at home. She used to give us her number in year four. The boys left by then. Year four was gone. The boys were assholes. They weren't very nice. One big thing that happened to me in year six was um, and and this was really quite scary for me. There was a a teacher. She singled me out and she bullied me. She was horrible. And um I remember very clearly my sister tried to stick up for me because we're in the same class because we're twins. And once I got up and I said, Look, you probably don't like me because of my background. And then she says she had enough of me, picked me up and threw me outside, and my head hit the wall and I passed out. Oh my wall. Yeah. And um the principal back then was coming up and she was walking up the stairs and she goes, What are you doing out here? And I couldn't even explain it. She thought I was in trouble. And I remember having to go home and tell my mum that. I had a massive bump on my head. She purely didn't like me because my background had Croatian to it. I never thought that that would that could have been the case. I was just free, I was really upset about it. And I remember when my mum came to the school, she said, no one is allowed to touch my daughter. This is what happened. And that lady actually she got sacked. She got terminated.

Speaker 2 6:30

That's not acceptable.

Speaker 6:31

Yeah, so then I was pretty strong. So before that, I was fairly quiet. After grade six, you kind of flipped and got to high school, so I was in year seven and basically no more sh long uniform, tried to make it shorter, tried to rebel. Yeah, my mum wasn't very happy. I mean, now considering what people do, that's nothing. But for then, yeah, I did. I pretty much cut my uniform. We didn't have a lot of money back then, made do with everything. My mum actually used to make everything. I was very creative. I used to knit my jumpers for school, and I used to crochet. So I was a rebel who used to crochet.

Speaker 2 7:14

That's the title of your podcast, Rebel Who Used to Crochet.

Speaker 7:16

Oh, yeah, crochet, creative. I did um, you know, embroidery. I used to love all that stuff, all of it. We had, unfortunately, I don't want to really talk about this, but we had the stigma of we were the WOGs, these were the Aussies. I didn't stick to one group or the other. I used to float. I used to be friends with the Aussies, friends with the WOGs, friends with, you know, whoever. But it didn't bother me. So, you know, I would go in at lunchtime and play the piano because that's what I used to do. I started piano at five years of age. And I remember my first song, Train Whistle Blowing by the Carpenters, I think it was, that I learned how to play. So were those your favourite subjects in high school music? I liked music. I loved uh textiles and design. I also loved mats. Um, mats I used to, I was pretty good at it. English, we didn't have a very good teacher. I remember her. She was horrible. Maybe I would have loved to be, you know, a better writer, but didn't like the teacher at all. I think it takes a lot of a lot out of you when you don't have a good teacher. We didn't have tutoring back then. My mum and dad, they weren't really hands-on with us, so they had no idea what we had in terms of homework. You know, we really struggled. It wasn't easy. I got into a bit of trouble at the school. Mum wasn't happy about that, but made it through.

Speaker 2 8:39

Isn't it interesting how you can still remember teachers that were really bad? I do, yeah.

Speaker 8:43

Our textiles one was Miss Tebeshev. She was hilarious. She she I'll never forget how she explained boobs. She was Czechoslovakian. Okay. Yeah. And she goes, Girls, girls, I have to speak to you about something. She used to speak this real accent. She was very, very good-looking lady. Um, she used to get the shits of me because I actually used to imitate her. And she goes, Some girls have apple boobs, other girls have pear boobs. And I got busted once imitating her on a fashion um fashion parade that we had. I was Marie Antoinette. We had to get dressed up in all these really fancy costumes. And I think I've got a photo of Mar Marie Antoinette somewhere, but yeah, we had to dress up like that and she busted me, and I got into trouble for that. I mean, you didn't we didn't get into crazy trouble. I mean, there was trouble. We had a friend, it was that was probably one of my hardest things to cope with. We had a friend that actually committed suicide. She threw herself in front of a train. Um, that was horrible. That was in year 10. We didn't realise how bad it was. I didn't get to see all of that because my parents were we were very protected.

Speaker 2 10:00

Yeah.

Speaker 10:00

I didn't even know half the slang words that people were using. And I was pretty naive, pretty protected.

unknown 10:08

Yeah.

Speaker 2 10:08

After school wrapped up, how did you start figuring out the next part of life?

Speaker 10:13

That wasn't easy either. It's not easy to work out what you want to do. All I knew was I was pretty good at like debating. Actually, I wanted to do law. I remember in year 10 I went to um went with chambers and did work experience there. And I remember I said, How do you know if that person's guilty? He goes, I really I don't really care as long as the bastard pays me money, I'll be fine. Then I thought, wow, that really upset me. Um I remember back then we did the switchboard. I don't know if you even know. They used to have switchboards where you'd have to put telephone switchboards, yeah. You'd have to put in all the different cables. And I remember I I on purpose used to pull them out because I was cheeky. Yes, you've been connected to the wrong call right now. Yeah, I was pretty cheeky, yeah. And I used to say, Oh what? You know, like I used to I used to be cheeky like that. Um So did you end up studying after high school? Yeah, I did. I ended up doing uh degree in Bachelor of Commerce, Major in Marketing and International Marketing.

Speaker 2 11:14

You said your passion was in textiles and music. How did you choose marketing?

Speaker 11:19

Because I'm I had a gift of the gab. I was really good at, you know, just convincing people to do pretty much anything. I could speak to someone on a street five minutes, I'd know their whole story. I was honest, I didn't have to lie, I don't have to manipulate, I'm just I'm just honest.

Speaker 2 11:37

So you played to your strengths and marketing as a call. Yeah. What do you remember about your first job out of uni?

Speaker 11:43

Well, my first job, not out of uni, but before uni, firstly, my mum was very upset. I went and got a job at McDonald's, and um, that was when I was 16. McDonald's taught me a lot, but we got paid nothing pretty much. It was crap. But I did that for a bit, and then my creativity was in graphic design. So all the money that I earned, I spent and bought a $3,000 Canon LBP 8.3 laser printer. I'll never forget it because that's what I bought to, you know, start my little business. And my little business was side hustled. I used to go to restaurants and places and say, Oh, your menu needs to be redone, you know, do you want it done? And I'd do it. Yeah, so how long did you do that for? Always did it as a side hustle. So even through uni? I did that through uni, yeah. Yeah, wow. Yeah. So I went to nightclubs and I'd do some of their stuff. But now, like with their Photoshop and stuff like that. I mean, probably love to look at that, but you don't have time as a mum and stuff.

Speaker 2 12:46

Yeah. So then after you finished marketing though, then did you drop the side hustle and start your first kind of graduate role?

Speaker 12:53

So basically with my first job, probably after my degree, geez, I can't remember. The first one was imagineering, my first ever, ever job in marketing. I'll never forget that one. I had to dress up as an Easter rabbit and go from company to company cold selling, soft toys. What? Yeah. And I went just to prove to myself that I could do it, but it was the most humiliating thing I've ever done because people were pulling my tail. What? The yeah, the corporate. You you go into the corporate, um, into the buildings, and you'd say, you know, you're selling soft toys, would you like them? And they'd start pulling them all out, and then I'd have to pack them back in, and I had to be dressed as a Easter bunny. Marketing events for Easter, Christmas, all of that. Yeah. And I hated that. Yeah, I can imagine. I hated it. I lasted one day. One day. One day of being pulled by the tail, you're like, oh, that's it, I'm done. It was pulling my tail. Like it was ridiculous. Because then you had those telegrams, and you know, you had the sing singing telegrams, and you'd have the stripper grams and you'd have well, not that I was a stripper, but you know what I think is. No. No, but you know, like you'd basically have all those grams, you know. You could do any gram and just be dressed as someone, you could be dressed as an elf, and you know, go to someone's place and knock on the door and say, Hi, I'm here, requesting a happy birthday song for Joan or whatever. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Speaker 2 14:26

So you finished uni, you had a few jobs, one of them included the bunny.

Speaker 14:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2 14:31

And then what was your experience getting into corporate?

Speaker 14:34

Okay, so my corporate was imagineering, and that was a guy called Jodie Rich, one of the most wealthiest um billionaires back then. He started this company, it was IT, and I was on the call center where we'd be like end user. We were explaining how to use the product and if something had happened to it. So we had to learn all our products. That was really interesting. In a way, I kind of loved it as well because I got to see a lot and I got to meet a lot of people, and I remember learning all these new programs, and back then they had multimate, word perfect, page maker, corel draw, things that you probably don't even know about now, you know, and that's where I kind of got my love also for more graphics. Then I got into the marketing there of their products and things like that, and then my next job was at an engineering place. I was there for a while. I did the newsletters there, um, and we got the STEM programs and all that, and the young people would be involved. And I think that was the most fun I got because we ended up doing the Engineering Excellence Awards that had um sponsorship involved, all that stuff that I used to love. And that's how I also met my husband, he was an engineer as well, and I worked for the institution of engineers. So after the Institute of Engineers, what was next? Jeez, I can't remember all this. Um, you're asking me a lot. I think it was UTS. I did internet at UTS uh course, and then I ended up going to James Hardy Building Products and ended up um helping set up the call center there. Um and I also did telemarketing. I did a lot of telemarketing, a lot of data entry now I'm remembering. And the data entry was for a telemarketing communications company. Yeah, I did a lot of call centered sponsorship and a lot of events as well. Then I worked in events and did sales, got involved in delegate sales and then got into sponsorship.

Speaker 2 16:39

Oh wow.

Speaker 16:39

Yeah, and became like um what regional PR marketing director for Asia Pacific or something like that. It's a long time ago. And we did stuff on we did congresses and summits on big like Norwegian starboats and things like that. Oh wow. Yeah.

Speaker 2 16:56

And what was harder about work than you expected?

Speaker 17:00

You know what? Back then, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have been so intimidated by CEOs. CEOs used to make you feel like absolute shit. But they thought that they had power because uh honestly, it's sad, but they used the fact that you were a pretty little young thing and they'd put you in these situations where you'd have to sell sponsorship because of the way you look or the way you can be. I didn't realize back then that that was the case. I remember having to take out a guy. This is a story. I don't know if he's alive anymore, but I remember having to take out a guy when I was working at my company, and I ended up taking this guy to uh Striver Place because that was my way of taking him out because we had to entertain them. So I didn't know how to, and then basically we're going to a place called dances, and it was a strip place, and he was in heaven because that's what they wanted to do, and you had to take him there, and I got him bunny money. It was so humiliating, it was horrible, but that's what you had to do to entertain them. I'm there driving around, and that's what I did. Had to pick him up from the airport, and he had the best the time of his life for that weekend, but that's what you were supposed to do, and it was very humiliating.

Speaker 2 18:22

Yeah, and looking at things and moments that you felt were humiliating or hard personally, how did you stop that from shrinking you and your confidence?

Speaker 18:33

Well, I kind of used it to my advantage, I suppose. Unfortunately, like I had the gift of the gab and the guys would want to take you out for a drink, and yep, I'd have a drink with them, and then I'd get them to sign that sponsorship deal. And then I'd go because I was a married woman and I wasn't interested in, you know, and I used to say that right at the front of everything. Back then that's what they were like. I don't know if they're like that now. I hope they're not. I remember once one of my CEOs said, 'Are you PMSing? I mean, seriously? Like, can you even say that anymore? And I remember I used to get very intimidated. And after having my children, I wasn't intimidated anymore. But I was. I was intimidated. I always used to say what I wanted to, but deep down inside I thought, shit, have I stuffed this up.

Speaker 2 19:24

And what did your job teach you about people, not just work? Because that sounds very intense.

Speaker 19:29

My job taught me that I have to be strong. But unfortunately, at that point, it also taught me how to be a manipulator. And I didn't like that. Um, manipulation is not something that I want to do or like to do, but I found myself doing that just to get a sale. We had to get quotas, and it's just not right. But my job also taught me how to be resilient and also how to say no, and I did say no. There was a time when this was a really bad, bad thing. It was the 2000 Olympics. The events company didn't have the tickets, and we sold sponsorship to people from America, CEOs and all that, to come to this hospitality event that you get them intoxicated, and then all of a sudden, you know, you're going to this event. But guess what? We don't have the tickets. So we were told that we have to entertain them on the bus because we're young, good looking, we can entertain them. But do you know how bad drunk men that are over 60 at that time that didn't have tickets were like? They were abusive, they were rude, and we were put in the middle of all of that, and the CEO was nowhere to be seen. And I remember I was disgusted, and I ended up telling the truth, and I ended up saying if I have to leave this job, I will. And it was it was it was not a very good thing to happen. Like, how can you lie like that? We didn't know. We didn't know that they didn't have the tickets. So we got stuck going around and around in circles. I'll never forget it. It was horrible. And to put three three girls that were like, I don't know, 23 in that situation with a bunch of drunk dickheads wanting to really just abuse you and you know, grope you and do all sorts of things, it was not nice. So was that the final straw for you? For me it was, yeah. And then after that after that we were supposed to I was supposed to go to Shanghai and a few other places. I did go to Tokyo. I traveled a bit, but we had a very, very personal thing happen to us and one of our um my husband's uncle died. Not uncle, sorry, um Auntie and I remember going into the family business back then because of that. And I didn't end up getting out of that because to me family just was everything. If I could help there, I I tried, but yeah, it got pretty boring. I you know, sometimes I'd be negotiating on sand and metals and steel, and it was just crazy because sand's measured by tons, you can't, you know, like negotiate things like that. I missed that, but what I got from the family business was the sense of family, you know, you do everything for your family, and it's always been like that. So I guess the grass can always be greener on the other side because I could have been in Barbados setting up offices and Monte Carlo and all of that where some of my friends have gone, but I've got a family and I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't give anything up for that.

Speaker 2 22:54

When you're talking about some of those experiences, do you think being strong looks different now compared to when you were younger?

Speaker 23:01

Hundred percent. And I try to teach that to my kids because I remember the situations I was put in. I mean, I was told to go up in a hotel room and have a line of coke just to get a sponsorship deal. I wasn't doing that. I was never gonna do that. But that's how they played their game. And if you weren't a part of that, you wouldn't get those sales. And it's sad. I didn't need to be a part of that. It was toxic. I guess I didn't understand toxicity until I saw that. And I don't want any of my family going through toxicity like that. So when you come home after a workday like that, how do you keep yourself sane? My husband used to come and pick me up all the way from the western suburbs. It'd be a good hour drive. The company wouldn't even allow money to be spent on travel back home. And I'd be up till say, I gave it my all. I used to be there till one, 12 o'clock in the morning because you had companies that were global, so you were answering to the head officers. I remember like it was fun for a while, but yeah, you get to a point where you just think this is ridiculous. So I guess it taught me how to be very strong and fight for what I believe. But when you're in a a boy's world like that, it's pretty hard. Yeah. And what helps you stay that strong? My parents, my belief, the way I was brought up, my mum, my dad. I mean, as much as my mum was a nutcase back then, I mean, even now, I understand the determination and the verocity that she has behind some of the stuff that she used to do because they fought so much for what they had. They came here with nothing. Nothing. And they built businesses and had a family and were able to send you to private schools. And kids these days are very lucky. Very, very lucky. They don't know how lucky they are. For us, it was it was difficult because they had their beliefs and they were scared, I suppose, and they wanted to keep us to the one environment, so to speak. We're always taught that we have to work hard, save, and we'll get something out of that.

Speaker 2 25:16

What would you say to someone in that environment if it's draining them um but they're not sure what to do or say about it or whether to leave?

Speaker 25:24

That's a really difficult one because if you really love your job, right, you gotta stand up for what you believe in. But in a toxic environment, that's extremely difficult because you're like being beaten by the forces around you. You're just beaten. You can't rise above it because they have power and you don't. So I think, based on where I'm coming from, if I had to go back now into a corporate position, and I did for a while, back in about 2015, I went back into a corporate position and it was a huge um media company, and I remember they were like hot, hot potting and hotspotting, you know, like swapping chairs and whatever it's called. Hot desks. Hot desking, you know, for us it was like we had a room. I couldn't believe how everyone was just on you didn't even get trained. They said, you know, look up YouTube and train yourself that way. And I was like, what the hell? And my my motto's always been fake it till you make it. Don't even admit that you can't do it, just fake it till you make it. And now you've got all this technology, you can you can look it up. But I remember at this particular place, I went into the kitchen and my friend, she's the one who got me positioned, she said, Would you like to do this? And it was like the back end of newsletters, and I had to use a program called Maquetto. Had no no no clue how to use Maquetto, but pretended I knew how to do it and um looked it up, got this got into the swing of things, but I guess the confidence is not there because you're a mum and you haven't been in that corporate environment. But my friend who's uh CEO and she deals with all CEOs at billion-dollar levels, she said, Are you serious? You have managed a family with five kids, managed events. This would be so easy for you. Anyway, I remember I had my rosary beads in my hand and I was going up this building, going, I can't do this, I can't do this, I can't do this. And I remember I was saying, I can't do this. And I'm saying, yes, I can, I can do this. This is easy. This isn't hard. And I walked in and everyone was at these um, you know, hot spotting or whatever you call it, hot desking. And I remember I had this guy constantly, constantly typing email after email after email, and it was like bang, bang, bang, email, email, email. And I go, who is this guy? And they said he's on the eighth floor. And so I went on the eighth floor, knocked on his desk or hot desk or whatever it was, and go, how you going? I'm the person, you know, that's um you've been emailing. How about you talk to me? And the guy had no, he could not even speak to me face to face. Like there's no face-to-face, they're too scared to talk to you. Um, it's all email, and I'll never forget it. I said, Um, we're going to have a Zdenka day. They're going, what? Okay, we're gonna have a Zdenka day. And it's like, what do you know about Zdenka? And what do I know about you? And who do you support? Who's your team? You know, like for soccer, for whatever. And found out that, you know, this guy was an Arsenal supporter. I was a West Ham supporter because of my husband and well, really Chelsea, but anyway, they started bringing in their scarves and slowly it started, and they were like, What day is it today? They go, It's Denka Day, you know. That's when I started that. And I remember when I went into the kitchen, everyone was not talking. They were just getting their food and eating, and then I'd start asking questions, and I would tell my boss, you know, did you know that person has two kids, husband's left them and they're struggling? And she goes, How the hell do you know that? And I go, just speaking to them in the kitchen. I think a lot of communication has been lost and the personal element has been lost. That was then, that was in 2015. I can only imagine what it's like now in 2020.

Speaker 2 29:34

Yeah, I can't imagine. I can't imagine you going from not being in corporate for so long, coming back and being like, wait a second, what happened here? I mean, glad you're not in a bunny suit anymore, but communication would be one thing to keep. So, what do you think managers and leaders could do more of to build some of that culture back up?

Speaker 29:52

I think they need to realize that everyone is like human and you're not better than anyone else. Okay, you might be you're maybe smarter or quicker, but let's face it, there's AI now. Everyone is using AI. And these days, even my youngest kid is saying, Oh, you've just used AI. They're they're actually sick of it themselves because they see it's being utilized, and yeah, it's great, it's a good thing, but you need to become more personal, like know if this person is struggling and help them. And I suppose now you've got working from home, that's good and it's not good because some people working from home prefer to be at home and they're not in the office and you don't get those dynamics. Um, but then again, after all this stuff with dynamics and all the way that everything has gone, I don't necessarily agree with all the different dynamics that you have to entertain either. And I think the world's gone mad. Oh yeah. It's gone mad. And everyone's trying to be an individual in their own right, but they're they're just all struggling.

Speaker 2 30:59

Yeah, the world's definitely gone mad. If someone grew up with really strict parents and only sees the hard side of it, what would you want them to see differently? Like the positive side, I guess, of it.

Speaker 31:13

The fact that they're just trying to love them and care for them and nurture them in the best way that they know how, and they're also doing the best that they can given what they've been given, and knowing what they know, they've done their best. Honestly, like they've come here with nothing. They didn't know how to speak English, and they were working process jobs. My father was a very hard-working carpenter. When he came here with my mum, he actually nearly got killed by a bunch of people because they they took their passports and they tried to keep them working and staying at their house paying rent, but I don't know the whole story, but it wasn't good and wasn't nice.

Speaker 2 31:59

What kind of values are you most conscious of trying to pass on to your kids?

Speaker 32:04

Morals, ethics, honesty. Be proud of what you do and be proud of yourself. Have and love yourself, care for yourself, be be respectful, have respect for yourself and care about the other individual that's next to you and understand that that person may be having a hell of a day and just treat them with kindness and just care.

Speaker 2 32:31

And if someone is trying to be a good parent, a good person, or trying to hold it all together, what would you want them to remember?

Speaker 32:38

I want them to remember that it's okay if if things aren't going to go well and that you can be forgiven. If you show you're human in a role and you show that you make mistakes, that person's going to take you more seriously and think, oh wow, I can talk to that person, I can believe in that person, and I'm going to work and make this person look good. I was actually very blessed with my boss that paid for my hex because he actually gave me credit for what I did. And there were others that would take the credit because you were a woman and say, Oh no, I did it. But I remember I did this proposal and they said to my boss, oh, you know, great job. And he goes, I didn't do it. He could have said that. And he goes, Well, who did it? The boss said, She did it. And then they had to talk to me. And I don't think they liked to talk to me because I was a female. They weren't very nice when it came to respecting the women's side of things, but he was awesome. Then he said, This is your person.

Speaker 2 33:45

I love that. So, some final advice for leaders listening to this podcast. What would you want them to know?

Speaker 33:52

Well, if you're a leader and you're trying to lead a team, you also need to show that you are human. You can't be a pushover. I get that. And you've got to show that you have that respect. But to get that respect, you have to earn it. So you need to get down on their level and you need to understand where they're coming from, you know, to be at the top. And for someone to love you, you need to be able to love them. So for me, it came about if you speak to anyone, they'll always say to you that I've always been a loyal worker because the person I've cared for as a boss, I've connected with, and I would do anything to help them and make them look good. I guess that I guess I'm trying to say in a ramble sort of way, you know, show them you respect them as well.

Speaker 2 34:46

Thank you so much for the conversation today, Zanki. I've loved learning about you, and I'm sure your kids are going to love hearing some of these secrets. So I shall now shake your hand and we shall say goodbye. Goodbye.