SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello, this is Rambles and Shambles with Anna. Today I'm sitting with Manju. He grew up in Nepal and has lived a very full life across a few different places before ending up here in Australia. So before we get into work, migration and everything in between, what do you remember most about being a kid in Nepal?

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Being born in Nepal, city of temples. I remember like waking up with the sound of bells. The vibration or the sound of the bells is supposed to bring uh the positivity. So that's how we wake up. I remember the views of the Himalayas. That used to feel normal at that time, but now I know like people pay to go to Nepal to see those views. But I used to see that while going to school. The neighbors and people, they were also like very friendly. And also we used to have a lot of festivals one in every month. So those are my uh childhood memories from Nepal.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

And what was your favorite thing about those views?

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Uh at the time I didn't admire it. I I used to just see it as normal. It's a normal thing, but now when I went back to Nepal, like after seven years, I went to trek with my cousins, and then I realized people come from like all over the world just to see those views, and I used to see it while going to school.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Yeah, well. If I walked into your school back then, what would I see?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Uh the class was really simple with just rows of benches and there were strict teachers.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

What do you think the difference between school here and in Nepola?

SPEAKER_00 1:30

I still remember like when I took my elder daughter to child care for the first time, when I entered the room, like I was like, is this a classroom? The one that I went to, it had like a jail, like with nothing, no infrastructure. She had like all the tables, even the walls were colorful hanging here and there. It was very colorful, and I was my school was not that great. But I had great friends and great teachers.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

What was your favorite subject when you were in primary school?

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Uh in primary school I think I like science, more about uh the space and uh high-rise buildings because uh in Nepal I used to live in Kachmando and the government didn't allow building to be more than ten storied. Okay. So when I see in movies the skyscrapers, high-rise buildings, I used to be like, oh wow, how did they create that? And I wish I could go there. What was home life growing up? I grew up with my mom and dad, and I have one brother, and my dad, he used to work as a copper smith, which was our traditional work. Even my surname Tamlakar, it means uh coppersmith or the one who works with copper. And I see my dad, he used to work really hard from early mornings to even seven days a week. Uh he used to work in high temperatures as well, like uh melting the coppers and even resaping the copper seeds.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

So do you think watching your father work hard instilled hard work in yourself?

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Yeah, I think uh I got that from my father, yeah, to give for the family and to do the hard work I learned from him.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

And what about your mother?

SPEAKER_00 3:06

She wanted me to be a doctor from whenever I was small. She used to teach me like whenever someone asks you what you want to become, just say doctor. And she was always pushing me for education because both my parents, they just did the primary education only. And they knew like education is the key for the life. And she was the one who used to drop me to school and always pushing me for good grades. I think I was in prep. I came after uh giving the exam and my mom asked if I answered all the questions. I said no, I didn't answer some of the questions, and then she took me back to the exam hall, requested a teacher. Uh she made me do all the tasks and I came like third on that exam.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Do you think school was pretty strict?

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Uh yeah, in Nepal it's it was basically really strict. Uh we used to get like punishment and even one rupee fine for speaking Nepalese in the school in Nepal. That's ironic. Yeah, so what language were you supposed to be speaking? Uh except Nepali class, we have to speak English, and if we speak Nepalese, like with we were fined one rupees, and they used to g buy some gifts and give to the good students. We used to have eight subjects and eight different teachers, and we have to carry everything in our bag. And here my your six daughter, she goes just with the launchbox. Yeah, and I don't know like what they are learning. Our school was really education-oriented, and our teachers they uh really imply discipline on us, and they were very strict. I think because of that discipline that saved us, and I think discipline is very important, and I saw some news here. Students disrespecting the teacher, it was in news I think a couple of weeks back, and I feel really bad for the teachers.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

I don't think he'd get away with that.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

No. What did the community feel like? Uh, the community they were living really close and they help each other, and I've seen them fight each other as well, but yeah, for the festivals they come together, and most good example that I saw was in 2015 Gurka earthquake that was 7.8 magnitude, and I was there in Nepal and at the time everything fell down in Karwanda Valley, like all the buildings, historical buildings, and most like a lot of people died. Uh we had our house was five-storied, but we couldn't go to the house to sleep because of the aftershocks that were coming after the earthquake. And we as a community we were sleeping on parks and roads. The community coming together and cooking together and looking after each other. And uh that showed me the importance of the community.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Yeah, sometimes when there's a disaster, that's when people come together the most. What did being a good student mean in your world? I know you said your mother wanted you to be a doctor, but how important was it to you?

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Uh I didn't want it to go too into my family business because I saw like it was really hard physically and mentally.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

So and uh as my mother taught me, like, I also knew like education is the key of life. And even my school's name was the rising school, and the quote was education is the key to life. So that is imprinted on my brain. So I can see that.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

We have to get the education so Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

So for you that was kind of a non-negotiable, you were always going to look at studying. You said that your your parents didn't have a lot of education growing up. So how did you choose what you wanted to do next or when you went to high school?

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Uh I was good uh up to high school. I chose science. Like in grade ten, like we used to have the iron gate, and after that year ten exam, you would get to choose, and the good students they choose science in year eleven and twelve, and I also chose science because I had like good grades. Either you go to medical and become a doctor or become an engineer. And I've been to hospitals and I didn't like the smell of the hospitals. Yeah, so I thought like I would do the engineering and I applied for entrance exam in uh Nepal's most reputed college institute of engineering. Uh, but I got refused for the first time because of the high competition. Around 10,000 people applied for 400 uh seats. Oh, wow. So I didn't get through for the first time. And yeah, at that time that shook me because I up to that point I was I have never failed, and I was really good student. And then I came to know like that's the reality, and there's more competition. And the next year I applied with preparation and I got through in the second year.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

So what gave you the strength after you'd failed to come back again and resit that exam?

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Uh, that was my mom. She she really encouraged me to study and she wasn't saying no more to be a doctor, and she supported me to be an engineer. And due to the financial situation of the family, I couldn't go to private colleges as my some of my friends did, paying high fees to get the degree. So I waited one year and like studied by myself, and I got through on the like the next year. I wasted one year.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Well, I I don't think it's a waste if you had you know, you learnt from your setback and the discipline to keep studying all year to reset an exam. That's it's quite impressive at a young age. How old would have you been?

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Uh I think I would be around 1920. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

That means you were the first in your family to go to university?

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Yeah, I was the first one to go to university and first one to go overseas.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Yeah, I'm doing a lot of things. And I'm also the first one to do uh inter-caste marriage in my family. That's a big thing back in Nepal. We were only allowed to marry of the same caste. Uh I moved to a a different city after getting my first job and I met my wife, who was from a different caste and she speaks different languages. Love has no language, so and now she's here with me.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Well, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

And with our two daughters, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

So what was your first job when you moved to that city?

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Uh I worked as an engineer. Yeah, as a site engineer in building for one of the local university.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Not more than ten stories, no skyscrapers just yet.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Yeah, that was just one story.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Just one story.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

So you finished you that was your first job. How did you move on to your next job?

SPEAKER_00 9:24

I married my wife, and after two weeks, I have to go to Saudi Arabia because the job I was working on, uh that project was ending. And after marrying her, like I had the peer pressure because I I knew I couldn't be jobless because I was still living with my parents, and it's normal living with parents in Nepal. And even my brother who is 30 years and married, uh, he's still living with my parents. But I had the pressure, like, if I'm not earning and I can't ask my money to my parents for me and my wife.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Yeah, to provide, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Yeah, so I applied for a job without telling my wife.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

How did that go down?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Yeah, in Saudi and I think I was it that was really an impulsive decision. And after I told her like she was really upset and crying all night, but yeah, I eventually I went to Saudi for two years.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Oh wow, two years. Yeah. Is that a bit of a culture shock?

SPEAKER_00 10:20

New country or yeah, the first culture shock was when I landed there. Uh the person who came to pick me up asked for my passport, and I was like really shocked because that was a new country and I know like how strict the rules are in Saudi and if they take my passport, I won't be like able to travel or do anything like it's uh I'm like a prisoner.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

So was that two years just mostly just hard work, hard yucca?

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Yeah, we had to work nearly twelve hours, seven days a week. Wow, that's insane. And then you got out and you came back to Nepal or Yeah, I came back in annual leave for one month and I could have stayed in Nepal, but uh the project was for two years and uh I went back to Saudi just to complete that project because I had to finish what I have started. The project was really big one. If I complete that project, it will be good for my future and for my CBA as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

What was the what was the thinking after that?

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Yeah, after that uh the manager was quite impressed with my job and offered me another job with a higher salary in Qatar. But I refused that and went back to Nepal and worked locally in telecom. And at that time I came to know we can get Australian PR sitting in Nepal with Skills Select uh one headline visa. Asked my wife as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

You told her about Australia, huh?

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Yeah, and she was really happy and we applied together and we got the visa for here, like the PR, and we were really excited to move here.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

So when you came to Australia, what did you expect?

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Since I got PR from Nepal and I had the international experience from Saudi, I thought like I would get my job, first job in Australia within a month. So I came here, stayed in one of my uh relative's places. I came here with like $1,200 and I didn't apply for any casual jobs, and I was just applying for any civil engineering jobs. I was just making a track of like where I applied and I was applying, but I didn't get any response from any of the organizations. Uh it went for like from one month, it went to two months, and after two months I had to invite my wife and daughter as well, because I left them at Nepal. I promised them once I get the job, I will invite you, guys. I I was expecting to get an engineering job, but I couldn't get, so I started working uh in a fruit shop, uh, but I still I was enjoying the job. And then after getting that casual job, I invited my wife and my daughter. Uh, I didn't get engineering job for next two years.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

So you went from the fruit job and then you just kept applying or did you have any other jobs?

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Yeah, after the first two months, uh I can honestly say the number of applications that I did kept on decreasing. Like if I was doing 10 or 20 applications per week, it came down to like 10 and then five, and it really went down because uh it wasn't motivating. I wasn't getting anything. And after that I got a good uh like a good hour and good pay job in bakery, where I was working like 10 to 12 hours a day from 2 p.m. to uh 2 a.m. or 3 a.m. in the morning, and that job kept me really busy, and the pay was also good, so I lost track of my engineering job, so eventually I stopped applying for jobs as well.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Wow, so you had an accredited degree, international experience, a visa that you can work here and you still couldn't find a job that you qualified in. What was the point where you felt yourself give up on that engineering kind of career?

SPEAKER_00 14:00

It gradually slowed down and I did one of the courses for how to get a job here, changing the CV and all. And after that, I did the intern here in Brimbank City Council, and even that after that I started getting interviews, but I wasn't getting the job. I was getting interviews not in Melbourne, but in regional Victoria. And I used to travel like uh two hours each way for interviews, going there with high hopes of getting the job, and just coming back just to hear the rejection that I didn't succeed for that role. And at that point I started thinking like maybe this is it, and the factory that I was working in, that would be my future. And because uh my co-workers in the factory, they were also like IT engineers with master's degree, and even they had the degree from here as well.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Guys, if you're looking for IT masters, look at bakeries, because apparently that's where they're all hiding. Wow, that's insane. You have an awesome job and career now. But how did you get out of the bakery work into your engineering career?

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Yeah, at one point after getting some interviews in Regional Council, I had one opportunity for interview, which was like three hours away from Melbourne. And whenever I go for interview, like my wife, she also used to take leave so that say she could come with me uh to encourage me and motivate me. And even I took leave for the next day for the interview, and I was ironing the sword that night. Uh, then like uh there were a lot of things going on in my mind, and I thought uh it will be the same, like the same as previous interviews. I will be driving there for two hours and coming back for nothing. And I was really tired with my work as well, like two hours every day. So I thought rather than going there for three hours and coming back for nothing, I didn't win for an interview on that day because I accepted uh this will be my future and like I'll be working in the factory and I just stayed home taking rest. And but after taking rest, uh I had really bad feeling like that was not who I am. I I am not the one who gives up because I used to watch wrestling and Zon Cena was my favorite and he used to say like never give up. So and I thought like this is not who I am, uh I and I should never give up. And then I thought I missed a big chance I could have got the job as well. I took the break but I didn't go, so I thought really bad, and then after that I started applying and doing improvements on my CV and finally I got I went for Mildura, where I got the job. The good thing is uh they send the flight tickets for the interview as well.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Yeah, so that's a new thing. Like they are hiring and they are looking for engineers, but they are also looking for local experience, so it's kind of Cash 22, like you can't have local experience until you get the job. Yeah, until you get local experience.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Yeah, someone's gonna take a chance on you. So do you think the moment where you gave up on yourself ironing your shirt and deciding not to go? Do you think that was the lowest part of that whole process where you didn't end up going to an interview and that's what kicked you into gear?

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Yeah, I think that was my lowest point where I accepted like I would be working in the factory forever. And then the next day when I didn't go and I had the whole day to realize what happened, and I thought like that's not me and I should never give up. And I think that was the turning point, the irony of the sort. The ironing of the shirt.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

If someone is struggling at the moment, uh can't find a job or is giving up on themselves, what would you like to tell them or what could they do, I guess, to help themselves?

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Yeah, I would tell them like if you are feeling weak, then think again because you left your home country, your family and friends, and you just bought like you bought one way ticket and come to Australia. That's not weakness, that's courage. And if you are applying for jobs, I would say like try to improve yourself, check your CV, get a mentor, and keep applying and never give up. And also like I would uh like to say everyone you meet here is uh fighting their own battle. So be kind to them and be kind to yourself as well.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

And what's something you do to keep your confidence up? I I love that your wife would drive with you to try and give you that pep talk, but what's something you do for yourself to keep that confidence going?

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Uh I go and work uh alone whenever I want. I don't w go every day, but I work alone with a lot of things uh going on in my mind. Um like thinking about the f future of my wife and my daughters and my parents back home who motivated me to become an engineer and come here. And uh they gave me they give me the motivation. I love that. A good support network around.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

And have there been moments in your life that really tested you, maybe even just before you came to Australia?

SPEAKER_00 19:04

When I was studying in uh Institute of Engineering, on the second year, for the first time in my life, I felled in one of the subjects, and that it hit me really hard. And I remember like I w was crying and even my parents they saw uh me crying and they came to my room because at that point I thought I wouldn't become an engineer and I failed my parents. The education was really that important at the time. And that moment uh really it felt really bad for me at the time when I fell for the first time.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Yeah, and and I guess that's a little bit different to the entrance exam where you've got 10,000 people, only 400 get in. It's possible to make external excuses of maybe there are other people. But when it's just you versus you and you fail the subject, that's it's hard to, you know, accept that.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Yeah, that was my fault, yeah. I agree.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

How did you come back from that failure?

SPEAKER_00 19:59

At the time I thought about my like parents and my their goal because since they were not like educated, they want me as of as their first child to graduate from the university and to become an engineer. And their wish and their motivation motivated me to continue my study.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

And what was one of the hardest things you've been through and what got you through it?

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Uh the hardest thing I would say was going to Tarangla Pass back in 2008. So the Thurangla Pass is one of the highest peaks in Onnapurna Circuit, which is at uh 5,416 meters, and that's like the highest pass, and it's really hard to get through. Like people do months of practice and trekking with all the gears to go there. Uh, but at the time some of my friends from uni, they said, like, let's go there and with the with proper research and anything, I just said yes, and I joined them with uh genes and converse.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

To do this massive like genes and converse. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Yeah, I didn't know like anything about that, and like when I went there, like I had the altitude sickness and I was vomiting uh on the the best camp of the Thorangla Pass. Uh but still I managed to go there with the help of my friends and the strong determination that I have to get through there. Because if if I didn't go through the Thorangla Pass by walking, I would have to go back the same way like that I have came, and even that was really hard. Or the other way was I had to call the helicopter and we didn't have fun still effort for the helicopter.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

So it's either back or forward, no?

SPEAKER_00 21:39

So I did that with my with the help of my friends on Converse and I still have the pictures, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Uh how long did that take?

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Uh we worked for seven days to reach the peak of the Torangla and like four days to come back. Whoa. In Connie's. I'm impressed. And altitude sickness.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

And why did you say yes to that?

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Yeah, I think Uh that was my impulsive decision and just to be with the friends and mates, I still remember like there was a uh big tear on my converse as well. And I had to put the plastic bags so that the ice don't get through the cracks on the converse. So yeah, it was really crazy thing that I did back then.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

That's insane. For someone who knows they need a change, but they're scared to make it or they're scared to say yes. Clearly you love to say yes and make impulsive decisions. What would you tell them?

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Yeah, I would say like rather than saying no and regretting, just say yes and learn and go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

That's it, as simple as that.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Just cut the crap and go.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Yeah. Um I have two daughters, Asma and Maya, and I want them to know like our story that we have. It's not about the struggle that we did coming here, but it's about the hope. Hope and the fight that we have. Like it's not about the struggle, it's about the hope.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Yeah, having a positive struggle.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Yeah, and the motivation.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Yeah, that's nice. And if someone's in a job right now but they feel stuck, maybe, you know, listening to your story about how you're in the fruit shop and the the bakery, what would you want them to know, how they can get out of that or when they've know they've outgrown or they're better than the space that they're in?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Yeah, or tell them just remember John Cena and never give up. Keep applying, never feel down. Um, but saying that uh they need to like adapt to uh the standards here as well, uh get their CVs checked by any mentor, or just improve and do some short courses or even on paid interns and do the networking. Like I just had one chat with Kanisha and she led me to you. So networking and communication is very important here to get the differences. And to say, like, uh never lose hope and the son will sign for you.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Yeah, that's it. So now in your engineering job, what are you loving the most?

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Uh, since I have worked in Saudi and in Nepal as well, I feel like the work-life balance here in Australia is the best thing that I have received. So it's uh like the people are very nice and everything is very good, and this is what I dreamed of when I first came from Nepal to Australia. I would say like this is more than I dreamed of because I didn't know like the work environment can be like this as well.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Yeah, we don't take your passports here. Yeah. Yeah. What would you say the difference in leadership style between some of your leaders in Australia and maybe overseas were?

SPEAKER_00 24:33

I don't want to say this, but the leaders uh back in Nepal and Saudi they were like mostly aristocratic. They were really like hard swearing to even the professionals as well. And I used to start at uh 8 a.m. uh in Nepal after coming back from Saudi. I used to work for a telecom office. Used to start at 8 and the other engineers they used to leave at 5 p.m. and I was one of the team leaders, and the team leader and managers, they have to stay till late night, and the meeting would start at 8 p.m. Oof. And it would end like around 12 or 1, and we have to show up next morning.

unknown 25:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

And we didn't used to get like the overtime pay and all.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

And no snacks either, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Yeah, they used to provide some snacks. Okay, there was snacks.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Okay, okay, it was on all that. I guess what's next for you? What are the what are your plans now?

SPEAKER_00 25:28

I would like to grow into leadership roles. I'm getting some experience and I did uh leadership course back in 2021 in Bildura. And one of the things that I learned uh there is like leadership is not about the hierarchy. Uh it's about the action. Take action from wherever you are. And yeah, I would like to increase my leadership skills. I'm thinking about doing uh diploma in project management, and I also want to help the immigrants, the qualified professionals. I'm helping them through LinkedIn as well. And whoever is is is in my circle, I'm helping them how to uh like write CVs and how to write the cover letters and key selection criteria to uh get and land a job, and some of them have landed the jobs as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

That must feel so good, especially after you know what it's like.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Yeah. Because the first thing I showed my CV when I did the course was I had a picture of mine in my C V and the first thing that she did was cross my photo. Like this is not how you say make CV here.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

So there's a lot of things to learn and adapt to get the job.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

More generally, when life doesn't go the way you planned, what do you think helps most?

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Yeah, I would say like uh when things don't go to plan, you have to change what you have doing because doing the same things repeatedly and expecting the different results, that's not going to happen. So you'll have to upgrade yourself, like upgrade your C C V or upgrade your experience with the local experience or interns. Or I go for work and have my inner thoughts thus with me, making the plans and thinking like getting motivated, like what I need and what is to be done. Yeah, that's all.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Thank you so much for sharing your story, Manjil. I'm sure a lot of people will really enjoy it. I shall now shake your hand, say goodbye, and go look at these connies. Thanks, Anna. See ya.