Rambles and Shambles with Ana
Rambles and Shambles with Ana is a podcast exploring work, leadership, and everything that doesn’t fit on a LinkedIn profile. Relaxed conversations about careers, how people ended up where they are, and what’s shaped them along the way. It’s for people who are curious about how personal stories unfold, and who knows, you might have a few reflective moments yourself.
Rambles and Shambles with Ana
EP013 - Electric Shocks, Big Questions and the Work of Teaching
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Reza grew up pulling apart TVs, toys and anything else he could get a screwdriver into, mostly to the horror of his parents. That curiosity turned into a career in engineering, then a life in academia, research and teaching.
In this conversation, we talk about childhood curiosity, studying engineering, moving to Australia and why he chose teaching over a more straightforward industry path. We also get into what students don't see behind the scenes, how he thinks about motivation and discipline, learning from failure, and why education can give people a bigger view of what their lives could be.
Hello, this is Rambles and Shambles with Anna. Today I'm chatting with Reza, an academic, very smart guy, spends his time thinking about electricity systems, and for reasons I don't fully understand, drinks much of coffee. However, before we get into work and life, when you were a kid, what were you always getting in trouble for?
SPEAKER_01So I was fascinated by pulling things apart just to understand what is inside everything. I remember my grandmother uh had uh one of these very old TV boxes, like a big console, uh big big cabinet. And then I was always fascinated what's happening inside that box. It shows this live pictures. But then when nobody was around, I remember I was getting a screwdriver, just opening it up and seeing what's inside that. And once I got an electric shock touching things inside that, and that taught me something is happening in these few bits and pieces, and then it was a sparking moment for me. Like I need to understand that more. Do you reckon that uh little electric shock is why you're hairs or I guess so. That wasn't the only moment I had electric shock, I had a few of them uh during my childhood because as I said, I was always curious to test things. Like my parents were saying, Don't touch that, uh, don't touch PowerPoint, but I didn't believe them, so I had to try it myself. Did that annoy your parents that you were constantly picking and breaking things? A lot. Like I didn't have any functional toy because uh like the moment they bought me a toy, I had to open it and see the inside of it. And so could you put them back together? No, like that was this big struggle, and that's a struggle still I have. Uh I always had a few things left when I was putting them together. And it's a similar story I have now. When I get things from IKEA, I always end up with extra uh screws or things because I I love figuring out myself uh without following the instruction, and that that is a lot of joy that at the end when I make it work, but sometimes it takes longer, and also with few bits and pieces left over.
SPEAKER_00I think you void the warranty when you don't follow the so in high school were you known as a bit of a nerd, or did you have friends like you?
SPEAKER_01I had friends like me at high school because I went to a selective high school and they were like a bunch of nerds together. But I was also very sporty, so we were doing a lot of sport. I was playing basketball and we had a team, we participated in the our city team, and then we went to some competitions together. Oh well, so you weren't just academic, you also loved a bit of health and fitness. Yes, uh, I was on both sides, but then I soon realized sport is not my thing because I couldn't make a career with sport in my country. So uh the only option I had was spudding and doing uh academics.
SPEAKER_00I think that's mostly because you're less than six foot and to play basketball.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that was the other thing. Like I wasn't tall enough to play basketball.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, ain't no one paying you for that. Like you're smart. How did you find out that electrons were your passion? You love it so much, but when did it become a thing for you?
SPEAKER_01Uh I think I started from childhood because I was experimenting with different things, but one clear thing I couldn't really realize was how electrical equipment and circuits they worked because there are definitely invisible things inside these elements and circuits, but I couldn't see them. And nobody could explain them to me. And then that was, I think, one of the reasons I said I need to study more and understand electricity in general. But also growing up, I I could see transmission lines, and uh and I was asking my parents what they are, and they were saying they are powering our house. But then again, for me it was a mystery like what's happening with these wires, why we use wires in the first place and what they are carrying. They were saying it's like um uh a hose with water inside, but with holes you can see the water, with uh wires you cannot see it. So uh it was hard to explain. And then because I couldn't figure it out, that was the reason. I think one of the reasons I studied electrical engineering, so I could really understand.
SPEAKER_00So you get into university, you start studying engineering. How did you make the choice to go to academia instead of going to the field and being an engineer in the workforce?
SPEAKER_01When I finished my bachelor and then I realized there are more questions I need to understand, and that pushed me into doing masters because then I can go deeper into some specific topics. And then as I studied more, I realized I don't know more and I need to learn more. And then I was also fascinated by discovering stuff, and then during my PhD, I focused specifically on transmission lines because I was fascinated about electromagnetics and how electromagnetic waves help us to transfer power.
SPEAKER_00Your eyes are so wide when you're it's like frothing at the mouth. How did you choose to go from student to teacher? Was there a class that you sat in and said, I want to be the one teaching the future minds?
SPEAKER_01There were a few reasons uh I became an academic. I had the opportunity and privilege to have some great teachers and lecturers in my life, and they really shaped my career. Like they helped me to identify my strengths. This is an opportunity and privilege I can also carry, and I can help young people and students uh to really understand what they want to do in their career. But also for me, teaching was an opportunity to transfer knowledge to the new generation of engineers and help them fix problems we have. For me, becoming an academic wasn't really a natural transition because uh I did my uh studies PhD in Europe and then I had an opportunity to work on a startup on an exciting product. But then I got a call from a friend who lived in Australia, and then he said, We have a position here at university. Do you want to come and join us? And I said, Australia wasn't a country I ever thought about like going and living there, but also becoming academic. I was keen to do industry work and doing impactful things, but academic for me was mainly teaching. But then when I came here and toured the university and also did the interview, I realized here you can do an academic job, but at the same time you can make an impact to industry and you can find solutions for some big challenges. And that was the moment I realized I can be an academic. Doing teaching that was always a passion, but also making an impact to industry.
SPEAKER_00So you worked in Europe at a startup. Was that your first job? Yes. What do you remember about that first real job?
SPEAKER_01So I didn't end up working for them for long, but it was very exciting. It's a very agile environment. I what I loved about that was the efficiency, so we had to do things quickly, bureaucracy wasn't really an issue. But at the same time, it was a lot of moving targets and a lot of responsibility and uncertainty. I was working in an asilo, and it's my own thing, but here I interact with hundreds of students and I learn from them, they learn from me, and that is very exciting.
SPEAKER_00So, how did you make the decision to leave? Obviously, you got a friend call you with a job offer, but what was the thing that made you switch your moving continents for a job?
SPEAKER_01It was a big move. I remember when we were doing that with my wife, so we had this spreadsheet comparing here Australia with Europe and pros and cons, and then spreadsheet was leaning towards Europe, but we were trying to treat the numbers and justify it. Like now we have to go to Australia because Australia is like this exotic country that when you are not here, you have heard about Australia, but you really don't know how it looks like. So we came here for the interview, we stayed here for a couple of weeks, and we really love the culture and also the country and what it has to offer, the um nature and the landscape, and that really attracted us to us. It was more like the opportunity of living in Australia rather than the job itself for us was the appealing part.
SPEAKER_00And what do you wish the students knew more about you?
SPEAKER_01I wish they knew. Teaching is not just doing lectures. Lectures probably is like 10% of the teaching load for an academic, like 90% of the things that happen behind the scenes, students they don't even notice them. And that's a lot of preparation work, a lot of admin work to make the unit and the course running smoothly. And sometimes students they don't appreciate that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. When I look back at university, used to have three, four-hour exams, and now they've cut those out or they cut them down. And sometimes I feel it's unfair that I had to go through all of that and now the students don't. How do you know that you're pushing them hard enough because they're going to end up in industry where resilience is actually really important?
SPEAKER_01Yes, so you're right. And when I compare the way I studied and types of exams, I had to do like three, four hours, no formula sheets, no engineering calculators, just basic. But now it's very different now. And that is one of the true challenges I always think like how we should keep the quality, but at the same time, consider the broader sentiment change that's happening here in the education system. But at the end, these are the minimum requirements for students to pass the unit, and they need to be fully proficient on those learning outcomes. And we make sure that we examine those learning outcomes in the assessments. If the student pass the course, it means they have this kind of, it's kind of an assurance for us that they know these basics and they know the subject.
SPEAKER_00Do you remember a time when a student surprised you with how they handled a setback or anything like that?
SPEAKER_01Uh, I've seen both positive and negative of those. Positive, yes, students had like family issues and they missed out on many assessments, but then uh with the right level of support coming from us, they managed to catch up and also did really great in the final exam. But also, on the other hand, like some students without the discipline is hard to keep them on track. And we try to do check-ins regularly, myself and my teaching assistants. So we try to keep students on track throughout the semester because it's 12 weeks. We have so many assignments and assessments coming up. But if there is no intention to learn, it's pretty hard to help them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Was there a moment where you received a piece of feedback from a student that really, really made you smile?
SPEAKER_01I receive these feedbacks often because I I try to make my lectures fun. And I try to have a lot of stories. First week I talk about how things you are learning can help you fix problems. But also every week when we talk about topic, I try to bring genuine industry questions and industry relevance to the topic. And I also invite industry lecturers so they can also give us different perspectives. And I purposefully purposefully choose. Choose these lectures from past graduates. So they have taken my unit, and now they are a successful engineer or someone in the industry, and they when they come back, they can give a relatable story to see and saying, okay, I learned this subject here, I learned this topic here in this course, but this is how I use that in my role in industry, the day-to-day job. And this for me gives me a lot of joy that what I taught was useful. Would you say that's the thing that you love most about your job? That is one of the things. Like it gives me so much joy. Shaping the future and making sure there's competent people out there. Yes, exactly. And also like being an academic, we have so much prod moments with students like with my PhD students that I supervise, when they graduate and then they get the title of becoming a doctor and then become a successful researcher or an academic, uh, that's another joyful moment. I love that.
SPEAKER_00I guess some days are harder than other days. What kind of things do you keep turning over in your head after a long day's finished?
SPEAKER_01I think with every job you have these moments, like ups and downs. Sometimes the challenge we have is the direction coming from the senior management level, both in teaching and research space, and then we have to find a way to make them work. And sometimes they make our life difficult, more difficult. But it's on us to find a way to make it work and sometimes become frustrating, but we get usually a good support uh from colleagues and also our line managers. But when I think about like a difficult day of at work is usually when I had to be involved in conversation that really wasn't either research or teaching, it was more like bureaucracy and you know all the things that behind the scenes of teaching and research that many people they don't see.
SPEAKER_00Oh, we all love the red tape. And when something gets under your skin, where does your mind usually go with that?
SPEAKER_01I have been fortunate because my wife, she's also an academic and uh at the same university. And we share a lot of frustrations, and also we help each other with, you know, when we each of us have difficult days, so we do a little bit of brainstorming, we share our experience, and also we always uh support each other. And for me, that has been the kind of strategy. Like when I have a situation that I'm really frustrated, I usually go and talk to my wife and uh or the vice versa, and we help each other and like calm each other down, we just calm each other down.
SPEAKER_00We both understand uh so what's important about education for you? Uh, what do you think education does to anyone's life?
SPEAKER_01So I can maybe talk about my experience with education and what it helped me. So when I I grew up in a small town, um, and then my capacity to dream was limited with what I could see surrounding myself. But education gave me wings to see beyond what is surrounding me and uh enable me to travel, to live in three, four different countries and have different opportunities. And I think that is part of the education that people sometimes they don't see. That is not just learning new things, it's more like enabling opportunities and uh giving you this capability to explore things that you probably you are not aware you can do at a given point in time.
SPEAKER_00So you think education opens up a lot of opportunities for people?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, and some of these opportunities, some people they don't know if they exist. I never thought I would come to Australia. The only thing I knew about Australia during my childhood was we had a book and a map on it, and it was known as a country far, far, far from everywhere. Even kangaroos. A land far away. Yeah, so it wasn't in my radar, like as a country to live in, but then I think the only thing that helped me to get here is education.
SPEAKER_00In the last couple of years, what's one thing that you've worked on most to become a better leader?
SPEAKER_01I've worked on different things. One was giving feedback, feedback for students that I don't see they are motivated. When I see these students, what I have learned is it's not just the motivation. I feel they are not inspired. And they feed and the thing I have worked on is how I can make them inspired. And uh when you give them the inspiration, hard work and motivation comes naturally. And uh it's a lot of try and error and a lot of learning myself because sometimes I also don't feel I'm inspired some days, but then it's important like to understand them and then connect that to personal stories so it may you make it more relatable when you give the feedback to students.
SPEAKER_00And can you think of a time you've had to give someone difficult feedback as a student?
SPEAKER_01Difficult feedback, I have had many of them because like when, for example, we are marking exam papers, it's very hard to give feedback when they fail. And you know that some of them are international students, they are paying tuition, they are far from their family, uh, it's expensive to live here. And then you have this one side that as an academic, we need to keep the standards. We are responsible to educate, deliver high-quality education and educate skilled uh engineers. But at the same time, considering the human side of the thing, like they're humans, they have a lot happening in their life. Maybe they just missed an exam or it couldn't study for the exam. So it's always very difficult to consider them all at the same time. Uh, both the human side that I have been doing, I have studied far from my family. I know like sometimes you're not really inspired, or you have other things happening in your life that can distract you. But at the same time, from the educators' perspective and university perspective, we need to keep our standards high.
SPEAKER_00And what's one thing that either annoys you or disappoints you when you see someone with so much potential but they just don't tap into it?
SPEAKER_01Sometimes I feel annoyed when I see a potential sitting, but they don't I don't see the hard work. I was surrounded by many sharp, smart people when I was growing up in a small town, as I said. And because they didn't have the opportunity to study, or they weren't really inspired to study, they really couldn't really achieve dreams of their life because they didn't simply didn't have the opportunity to do that financially or access to education. And I see some students in great universities with everything provided, but still they are not really studying hard, or they don't see the how this studying, as I said, can enable them, can give them wins and can give them elements for future success is really annoying.
SPEAKER_00I can imagine. Especially when you know that the world needs more people with skills.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes. It's a privilege to be in a safe, stable country like Australia and also having access to like quality education. And I think because I'm I have this background growing up in a small town with scarce resources, I value that a lot. And this is the message I when I was giving feedback to my students, I tried to remind them that the opportunity they have and they like how privileged they are.
SPEAKER_00For students or mature-age students that are struggling to find the motivation to study or the discipline, what advice would you like to give them?
SPEAKER_01Studying is not easy. I I admit that. I enjoyed studying myself, but it wasn't easy. Homework, a lot of assignments, stress, hard work, but it's just a temporary phase that will lead into big opportunities in the future. Like when you finish uni with a good degree and then with good experience, and if you have done good uh with your units and courses, there are plenty of great opportunities awaiting you outside university. And I've seen it myself, and I'm seeing that with my students. Students that put hard work, they study hard, they find very good jobs, and they uh end up being very successful in their career. So it's just a phase, temporary phase, that gives you a lot of education, but at the same time it helps you to build a lot of soft skills. Like when you get busy with your work, you won't have time for other personal developments, like very limited time. But university time and education time and uh school time is a golden period in my view. Students can work on both the education side of it, uh technical side, but also on soft skills that will help them in their future career to become successful.
SPEAKER_00That's so true because a lot of people that I talk to, they say, oh, back at university or back in the school days, I had friends, I did a lot of a lot more communication, you spend a lot more time with people. But I guess now with online learning, that communication and that kind of connection piece is a lot less. How do you think that's affecting future students or current students?
SPEAKER_01Interaction with students and with lecturers and educators is very valuable. And I have learned a lot from these arguments and debates during lectures. And I also encouraged that during my own lectures. Like I usually stop, ask questions, and open the floor for discussions. It's not a one-way flow of communication. That's what I've learned that it doesn't really work well. Like you go rock up to a lecture theater and give lecture for two hours. It's boring. I've had many of them and they're boring for myself. So I've learned that. And I what I try to do is I encourage discussions. And this discussion doesn't mean they need to agree with me, it's just open for discussions. Many times I learn from them. And with online uh learning, you don't have this opportunity. But also the human factor, right? Like when you're discussing with people, you are exchanging knowledge and ideas, but also you are learning how to interact with different people and different of different views and uh thinking. AI really cannot, and online learning cannot really help with that. And that is, I think, a skill that everyone needs to develop, especially nowadays, because with AI, we have access to knowledge, but we need to make sense of that data and knowledge. And that can be created and developed by discussions.
SPEAKER_00Of course. And I love that you let your students challenge you. What do you think they've taught you across your experience of being a lecturer?
SPEAKER_01Uh I'm continuously learning from them. Like one thing I've learned, especially post COVID, is the way of teaching has changed. So I am updating my content to adjust them. Based on what the best way of teaching. When I started at uni as an academic, I was under the impression that I should know everything. And I am the professor, so when there is a question, I need to have the answer. But then I learned that I don't need to, I don't need to know everything. I it's okay for me just to say, I don't know that. I I will go and research and I'll come back to you. And I think that that has helped me to connect better with students. They don't see me as a professor who is not approachable. It's more like he's also a human. There are things we don't know, and we all need to learn. And that is also the message they see that when I'm uh doing that. Like there are many things I don't know, but I can learn. What do you think people get wrong about failure? I think one thing they get wrong is when they fail, they think that's it. And they should go on and try something else, or they shouldn't try it again. I have failed many, many times, and there will be a way that you can make it work. And uh it's just everyone needs to figure out how to do that. And it's very personalized. Like you may try it harder, or may you may try a different approach, or you may change the strategy. But one thing I've learned from my father in particular is there's nothing in the world that I cannot do. And uh I think there is also a famous quote, I've forgotten, who has said that what you can and what you can't, they're both true. I think the main thing with failure, if you couldn't make it work, try again and again and again.
SPEAKER_00And what do you tell yourself though when you hit that repetitive failure, whether it's a subject, whether it's a course, whether it's something at work or a business? What do you say to yourself to keep you going and keep yourself strong and resilient in that?
SPEAKER_01I think it's not just trying again. Maybe it was also reflecting how I did it and why I failed. If it was the strategy or approach I took, I'll use a different approach. But when I fail, uh, I take one step back and I reflect why I failed. Was it because I didn't try hard enough, or was it I didn't have the education for that? Uh if it was a business or a new course, I didn't have enough background, or was it something wrong with the like uh prerequisites I needed to have? And then I adjust my next try and next uh way of doing that accordingly. Like I have to I have to try a few online courses on different technical things but also non-technical ones. And first I realized, wow, I don't understand anything. But then that was because I didn't have the prerequisites, so probably I should get my myself up to speed, and that helped me to see the next phase much much easier. Sometimes when it's like you try it once, it doesn't work, but there are a few things out of control that you don't really control, and then next time you try, uh it goes very smoothly. I don't have a recipe for that, but it's very, as I said, very personal. It's more reflection of what went wrong, and then from that you learn how you do the next attempt.
SPEAKER_00You talk a lot about self-reflection, but some people struggle to have honest conversations with themselves. Do you think that your self-awareness grew over time? Did you do anything to work on that? It definitely grew over time.
SPEAKER_01Sometimes things happen to you uh but really don't have any control on, like even job opportunities. I think I mentioned I moved here just by knowing there was uh an opening here at the university, and then I applied and I got it. Uh, it wasn't with planning. But then I'm happy with where I am now. And then I realized that with a lot of self-reflection, this is actually what I wanted to do. I think self-reflection and learning about your strength is something that happens over time. And I don't know any training or anything for that. It's more like a lot of thinking and trying and experiencing things. Do you write anything down or do you just keep it in your mind? No, I'm very bad in writing. I know it helps. I've tried in the past and it has helped me, but I'm not that organized to write it down. It's more like in my mind, but my mind is busy with hundreds of things at the moment. And uh I think that that's one of my strengths. I I can think about different things at the same time, but I'm not focused enough to write things down.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, fair enough. But as long as you know about it, that's the main thing. So, what piece of advice would you give to people who have recently either failed something or have given up?
SPEAKER_01Uh, give it another shot. Just don't give up. Maybe this last shot will be what will make it work. And that has happened to me, and that I know it has happened to many of my students. If you know that you like that, give it a shot. Don't just don't give up.
SPEAKER_00And I think it gets to a point as well, because sometimes what you're trying to do isn't right for you, but you need to be honest with yourself and say, absolutely. That's what I mentioned.
SPEAKER_01Like uh we need to know our own strengths. Uh I and be realistic with that. I I knew that I cannot be a basketball player, a super external basketball playing, because I knew my limitations and uh I knew my strengths. But if you know you already have the strengths and you that's something you would like to do, and you have failed first, second, third time, just don't give up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, especially if it's your passion. Yeah. How do you balance missing out on an opportunity versus making sure it's the right move for you?
SPEAKER_01Coming to Australia and in general studying abroad was a big decision for myself, and I think many people are on the same boat because you see the opportunity, you can study in a good university, there are plenty of opportunities for you out there, and you experience new countries, uh, live among different people, but at the same time you lose and miss out on a few things, like you are far from your family, uh, you need to make new friendships, you need to leave everything you have built and start from scratch. So it's a lot of pros and cons, a lot of balancing. We were doing a lot of spreadsheets, giving scores, and then manipulating those scores to make it work. Because what I've learned, I've been in a situation that I had to decide between few choices. And you have choices that really stand out from like when you do scoring from cost benefit analysis, but also sometimes down in yourself, like inside yourself, you feel that's not the right choice because that won't make you happy. And always I've chosen the path and way that would make me happy, even on scores and spreadsheets. That wasn't the optimal one. I think I've been happy so far with my choices, because I think happiness is the ultimate goal we want in life. Sometimes you just compromise on a few things. Probably you will go with a suboptimal choice, but then I would rather be happy than having the best choice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that spreadsheet needs to add up to a smiley face. Yeah, yeah, got it. If someone's in a season where nothing really seems to be working and they're a little bit unsure, and maybe they're looking at an optimal versus suboptimal option, what would you want them to know?
SPEAKER_01Sometimes we overthink uh what options we have, and that I tend to do that a lot myself. Another improvement I'm working at the moment, uh trying to learn and uh make decisions easier. At the end, the difference between optimal and slightly optimal options won't be significant in the long run. What we shouldn't be compromising, in my view, is if that option will make us happy. If that will come down with a lot of like it will, if it puts our happiness at risk, in my view, it's not worth it. But overthinking is a problem I think I have, and I know many people have, because these days we have access to data, and data can be confusing uh and can make decision making very difficult. And data can be manipulated as well. Can exactly, yeah, exactly. And also depends how you look at the data. Like as I said, like I used to have spreadsheets when I was having options, but then it's like how you look at those data, right? You can make positive sense of it or negative.
SPEAKER_00For anyone who's listening, who's trying to figure out their next step, what advice would you like to give them?
SPEAKER_01The advice I would give them based on my experience is don't discard any option and also keep an open mind about what life could bring to you. Where I am today, and the job I have and the country I'm living wasn't among all the options that I had, like maybe 10 years ago. Doesn't mean you always know what life will bring to you. Be open-minded, but also try exploring. Keep exploring because there is something out there that will be the dream of your life and will keep you happy. And sometimes some people may not have it quickly, but uh for them the message is keep exploring. There is something for everyone in this world.
SPEAKER_00There's something for everyone. That's it. I love that, Reza. Thank you so much for that. Thanks for having me. I will now shake your hand, say goodbye, and we shall go get your matcha. Thank you.