Rambles and Shambles with Ana
Rambles and Shambles with Ana is a podcast exploring work, leadership, and everything that doesn’t fit on a LinkedIn profile. Relaxed conversations about careers, how people ended up where they are, and what’s shaped them along the way. It’s for people who are curious about how personal stories unfold, and who knows, you might have a few reflective moments yourself.
Rambles and Shambles with Ana
EP015 - Real Strength: Self-Worth and Finding Your Way Back
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Jason can seem intimidating at first, but beneath that is someone deeply caring, fiercely driven, and very thoughtful about life.
In this conversation, we talk about growing up in a violent household, learning confidence early and how he went from being a hyper, aggressive kid to someone who now tries to lift other people up. We also talk about failure, masculinity, mental health and why passion matters more than following a path that was never meant for you. This episode is about self-worth, resilience, and what it looks like to choose a better way forward.
Disclaimer: This episode includes references to family violence and mental health themes. Listener discretion is advised.
Hello, this is Rambles and Shambles with Ana Today I'm sitting with Jason, someone I met nearly a decade ago. At first glance, he can seem pretty intimidating, but is actually one of the most caring humans I know. He's a business owner, fighter, coach. So hello Jason.
SpeakerHi Anna. Thank you for having me on. Very excited to be here.
Speaker 3I'm excited that you were very comfy on that couch.
SpeakerIt is best couch.
Speaker 3Now, as a kid, were you pretty easy to manage or a bit of a handful?
SpeakerNo, as a kid I was really hyper. I mean, I've I've sort of uh sort of used that now as one of my superpowers, but as a kid I was quite a handful, would always be running around. I was I was sort of rambunctious, I was always sort of inside I'd always play with like swords and stuff, always like little nerf guns and whatnot run around and couldn't really keep me still. My mum was a reading tutor, actually. So she used to always try and sit me down and read me books and stuff, and then I would get up and run away. So did your mum ever shoot you with those nerf guns? Or one time we actually had the best time. We had a little nerf gun war. It's actually one of my favorite times. It's like diving behind couches and stuff. She's like, oh no, stop. And I was like, no, you do it.
Speaker 3Shoot out. Okay, I need you to sit for this interview, Jason. So in primary school, what do you reckon were your favorite subjects or things to do?
SpeakerUh for me it was PE and drama. I've always sort of enjoyed entertaining people and I've always been sort of like a physical guy. I've always had a heap of energy and I've never really won for a classroom. That was sort of the the only thing I ever found difficult. Uh sitting down for long periods of time while someone tells me something I'm not interested in at all was always found rather difficult. What was something you were always getting in trouble for? I'd never sitting still in disrupted glasses. I would just, I like to entertain, I like to talk to people, I like these things, and then I would always lean back on the chair and then was always told they're like four legs on the ground. And I'd be like, mate, there's four legs on the ground, and be like chair legs. And I was like, you didn't you didn't say that at the start. Not very good. A little bit of a smart on a sort of enunciate better.
Speaker 3Please use your words. When you think about yourself as the younger version of you, what stands out the most?
SpeakerFor me, I was always big on personality. So the primary school I went to uh was a private school, right? And it was very, very big on performance. So we used to have these assemblies once a week, and each year level would do something. So you'd sing, you'd dance, and back in the day I used to have the voice of an angel. My God, it was like the cherubim were singing themselves. So I used to love that, and I used to love performing. So even when I was young, when I was like in kind of and I would watch like my sister perform, I'd stand up in the stands and I'd start dancing and I'd start doing it because she'd practice at home. And then I I'd just love it and always loved those things. So just performing and being able to do that, and actually being able to express yourself is a very big thing, and I've never been afraid to do that. So I think that's always something that stood out to me.
Speaker 3So you mentioned do you have a sister and a brother? Are you the middle child?
SpeakerI'm the youngest. So I have an older brother, he's almost 40 and completely useless. And then I have an awesome, awesome older sister who's married, two children, and uh kicking goals over in uh Queensland.
Speaker 3So, what were you like in the family as the youngest? Did everything get done for you, or were you?
SpeakerOh I was probably I was probably looked at a bit more favorably by mum at the start, just being the younger one, but no, no, I was I copped it pretty hard. Being the younger child, I was sort of like the this sort of kicking uh person for like everyone. So my I came from a very abusive household. So my brother was not a very good person, so he would take his anger out from my old man on me because he could. So it's always been one of those things where the weak sort of hurt the weaker. The stronger really hurt the weak. It's not it's kind of not looked at how it actually is. Everyone always thinks, ah, the powerful want to corrupt the weak. Generally not the case. It's more the weak hurt the weaker, because the strong know they're strong. It's the weak want to feel powerful and they can't hurt anyone else, so they hurt people weaker. So my brother would get beat up by my old man, then he would come and beat me up because he could, and then my old man would beat me up because I've been beat up, and to stop whining, which is not really conducive of anything. But uh yeah, so uh growing up sort of copped it, but weirdly enough, that should hurt your confidence, but it never did. Just kind of kept being me.
Speaker 3For someone who might have a similar experience in their childhood or maybe even currently, what advice would you like to give them to kind of keep their confidence? Because you come across as someone who, even though you've dealt with a lot of things, you come across as someone who's very confident and happy with life.
SpeakerYeah, but you don't determine your self-worth on someone else. They don't make statues of critics. Everyone will criticize you, and especially the the bigger you become, the more people will try and criticize, right? Know that. That's fine. Don't measure your self-worth on someone else. Measure your self-worth on how you believe you are and how people around you think you are. Like, for example, if you're a good person, you don't need to post that on social media, you don't need to do all those things. Do those things for you. And the people, your peers, the people closest to you, if you're a good person, they'll reflect that. If you're driving in your car, do you think what the person next to you in the left-hand lane is thinking about you? No, because it's not something that will hit your mind. But you might be in a room surrounded by people and be like, oh, are these people judging me? No. Everyone's so concerned with themselves, no one's judging you. And even if they were, who cares? That that will never have any effect on you in life. Be true to yourself. That's the biggest thing I can ever tell people. Be true to yourself and don't measure your self-worth from others.
Speaker 3So where do you think you got your confidence from?
SpeakerYeah, you know, I've just always sort of been out there and I've just I've never worried about what someone thinks of me because I just don't think it matters. If you do that, you'll never be happy. You'll literally never be happy in life because somewhere someone won't like you. You can be a humanitarian, you could cure cancer and someone will be like, well, there's still world hunger. There are people that literally are bad people, but will judge others who do amazing because they aren't happy with themselves. I think like confidence comes from within. And no matter how much you get beaten down, no matter how much you get pulled down, I think as long as you believe that, you'll always be able to rise above things. And I've had to rise like a phoenix in several occasions. There's been times in my life where I've been so far down where you're looking at like a hanging noose, and you're like, Oh, I could just do that now, and then you just bring yourself back up like the phoenix, you rise from the ashes and you can just keep going.
Speaker 3Yeah, I love that.
SpeakerAnd what were you like in high school? In high school, uh probably until I was around year nine, year ten, I was a bit of a dick. So I was quite a aggressive kid, sort of growing up, but not on purpose. Um, I used to get into a lot of fights, not knowing that they were fights. So again, because I I g I guess for background to sort of make this make sense, I used to get beat up a lot, like at home, like a lot. So my big brother, who's seven years older than me, would literally, and when I say beat me up, it's not like a bit of rice housing, like he would put me behind a door and slam the door repeatedly into me. My old man punched me in the face because I screwed up one of his tape recordings. He had wicked OCD. So I grew up in quite an affluent family. So we had like a lot of TVs, a lot of things, right? He would record around seven shows at a time. So a lot of different TVs and stuff. And then he would never watch them, he just did, right? Then I was six, and I didn't know how to use a VHS recorder. Who knows that? Six. Back in the day on the VHS recorder, if you push the record button twice, it would stop. But there was a delay, so you'd push it and it wouldn't, then a little red dot would come up. But it there's like a two-second delay. Again, I don't know that I'm six. So I push it and then nothing happens. I push it again. Then the little red dot came up and I walk off, and then it went. So anyway, I was excited. He got home and I was like, hey dad, I did your recording. And he's like, oh, okay. Put it on, realized that it wasn't recording, and then he got angry and then punched me in the face and knocked out my tooth. And then I was like, oh, damn. Well, that sucks. So like violence to me was became sort of normalized, if you will. So at school, I thought that's what you did, that's how you played, that's how you had fun, because that's what my brother would do to me. That's sort of what I was sort of thinking. So I used to get into a lot of fights, not because I was like, oh, I hate everyone. I used to think that was fun. So I'd be okay, we're gonna fight at lunchtime. And I never understood why people would like be scared. And I think like I remember I, but this is before I knew how to fight. I had a kid in a guillotine. I didn't know it was a guillotine back in the day. To me, it was just what I saw in WWE. It's always into pro wrestling. And uh, and I was squeezing this kid's neck, and he's like almost going unconscious, and then he starts like crying, and I was like, Why are you crying, bro? We're having fun. And like for you, maybe I had no idea. So I'd be like, hey, we're gonna go fight at lunchtime. I'd be like beating these kids up, and then they'd cry. And I was like, Why are you crying? And then I'd be like, Oh, now you've killed me, and your character is now max level, because then I was pretending like everyone would like level up and shit. It's a wild time. I had a great imagination. But uh when I put to high school, uh, in year seven, my sister scared me. So she's like, hey, if you're like what you are in primary school, an army of year 12s will break all your bones and throw you over a fence and no one's gonna find you and you're gonna die. And I was like, what the fuck? Right. So in year seven, I was a massive pussy, and then uh I uh got bullied because I was just too scared to speak up because I was like, oh no, I can't be what I am in primary school. And then I can't remember what the kid's name was now. Well, come to me. Uh tried to fight me in at the time of training Taekwondo and tried to fight me, and then I beat him up. And then I was like, oh yeah, I can do this. And then I went on this horrible tirade of like attacking so many of my bullies, and then like I almost got expelled. Like I beat a kid with like a bike chain. It was oh right. Yeah, some wicked stuff, and um it just I just I just I just introduced you as like the most caring person I know. Back in the day, it's back in the day, cutsful circle, right? Yeah, you all you all your listeners will come to understand. I'm an open book, and uh then it was it was wild. You know, don't bully kids, you never know what they'll do. This goes for everyone, don't bully kids. After that, I was like, oh, and then I again I felt too powerful, and then I started like being a bit of a dick. And then it was in around it was Rainier Night, actually. I was like beating up my friends and doing stuff like that, and I realized that they didn't like it, they'll get like scared. And again, this is how I thought about playing. And then I was like, God, I'm horrible. So I just woke up one day and I was like, I'm just not gonna do that. And then that's been like my whole life ever since. I was like, God, it's easy to be a good person. It's actually really, really easy. You don't really have to try, you just don't be a dick. That's sort of that the transformation that happened. Then I just kept going through that. Then I've always been very big on bringing, if you go up, you want to bring people up with you. So I've never been one to leave anyone behind. You don't want to do that. You don't need to build off the back of someone else. You can carry everyone else up the ladder with you. People that would have known me back in the day would have thought that I was a bit of an arrogant asshole. And then now they see me modern day and they're like, oh my god. And um, which does sort of surprise me a little bit. I did run into some old people from high school, not all that long ago, I might add. And they'll it's almost like they were in a time capsule. They were stuck back in like, oh, what so different now? They'd be like, Oh, I remember when you're like this. I was like, Yeah, cool. We're children.
Speaker 3Yeah, people change, yeah, people grow.
SpeakerLike, that's so weird that reminiscing like wild would have been 13 and I put him to sleep with that. And uh time. Uh don't bully kids. Underlining thing there. The message is clear.
Speaker 3The message is clear, otherwise Jason coming to get you.
SpeakerYeah, so uh that's sort of a lot of people will use outside sources, I guess, to motivate them, and there's nothing wrong with that. Um, if you need an external source, I don't know what it is. I've always been very self-motivating, and I think it's I have more of I guess a fear of failure than I guess a love of winning. Like it's it's sort of how you look at life. Some people love winning. I hate failing. So not even like losing, failing. There's a difference. Yeah, you can lose and still do well. Failing is uh what I fear, and I guess that's sort of what motivated me. And I just don't think it takes much to be a good person. And I just viewed myself as when I was a kid as not a good person because I didn't know what I was doing was wrong. Then when I was old enough to realise, oh, this is wrong, I just stopped. Yeah, just became not a dickhole.
Speaker 3Dickhole. I can't wait for my mum to listen to this episode.
SpeakerSorry, Ana's mum, you're a great woman. World's a better place because you're in it.
Speaker 3So, did you have any idea what you wanted to do back then when you were in high school?
SpeakerOh, absolutely. I wanted to be a professional wrestler.
Speaker 3Oh wow.
SpeakerOh yeah.
Speaker 3Oh, that worked out.
SpeakerI know, right? So I was really into drama and stuff. So again, I've always loved to entertain. That's always been a big thing for me. I like to make people smile, I like to make people laugh, I like to bring the best out of people. And again, I think it's because I grew up so miserable that I just like seeing happiness, joy, and whatnot. So I wanted to be a professional wrestler. And also, professional wrestling held a very significant part in my life because growing up in a very uh domestically abusive household, pro wrestling is when it would all stop. So I used to be really into pro wrestling. It happened from I used to watch a cartoon called Ultimate Muscle. I don't recommend anyone watch that, it has not aged well. Uh a lot of fart jokes, a lot of weird stuff there.
Speaker 3But uh explains your humor now.
SpeakerOh yeah. But that got me really into pro wrestling. So I started watching real pro wrestling, right? And then I I loved it. I loved all that it was, and I thought it was cool. So then I was really, really big into that. That was that was my only goal. That was literally my only goal. Like everyone would be like, oh, you should have a backup plan. No. Uh, you should have like 10 different backup plans. No, you should try and succeed in what you want to do. Be happy. Don't worry about what everyone else again wants and thinks. Be happy, be you. And these days it's sometimes gets pushed a little bit too much and people do weird stuff, but be you to a point. Right? Maybe, maybe don't try and pull in a litter box. But like, for example, if you have goals and stuff, yeah. Like go to achieve them. If you already have in your mind you've got plan B, plan C, plan D, you're already one foot out. You're not committing because you're like, oh, I have this, I have this, I have this. I've never been like that. Oh, but once if you don't make it, why would I not make it? Like, that's the mindset you have to have with things. So I think if you're gonna be really, really hyper successful, you have to go, why would I not make it? Like a a thing, actually, weirdly enough, I can't believe my brother said this in his nuts, but actually said this and this stuck with me. I don't know who told him this, but this is actually golden. You don't have to be the best in the world. You just have to be better than the person in front of you. And until that person is the best in the world, what does it matter? And having that in your mind makes goals be far less monumental. Like people look at, oh, if you want to be a fight, oh, you're gonna be a world champion, you're gonna be thinking I can't beat the world champion. You don't have to, you're not fighting him. You're fighting Joe Schmo from down the road. Like the guy's a part-time baker. That's who you're fighting. Like you're fighting people with very real jobs in the world. You're not fighting people that just train full-time. When you think about that, it makes things less daunting. And I've sort of always thought about that. So I want to be a pro wrestler. And then the issue with that is obviously pro wrestling isn't exactly big in Australia. And uh there wasn't a wrestling school to for me to go learn. So uh that's why I kept up with all the drama and stuff, so I could really make the character and play the character and everything. I love spotlights and stuff. I get like negative. I'd never tell.
Speaker 3Oh no, I can never tell.
SpeakerLike I've got my thing stuff like nerves. Like if the spotlights on me, people are like, oh no, oh no, people are looking. I'm like, more people look. I perform badly if I'm like in front of a group of like five. I want a group of like 500. I'm like, yes, care for me. I love that stuff. So I yeah, I wanted to be a pro wrestler, and then when I found out all the horrible, horrible things that go behind the scenes in pro wrestling, like horrible stuff. I was like, damn. Then I was at a crossroads. I was 16 years old. It's like, what am I gonna do with my life? Who am I? And then I played UFC Undisputed 2011 and it said based off the sport. And I was like, I could totally do this. Like every single person that's ever watched MMA in their life that immediately goes, Hey, I could beat that guy up because you've never trained a day in your life. I was like, hey, I could do that. I should probably train though, because I don't think that I can just beat up people that hone their whole life to beat them up. Like, because that's ridiculous. In the same way that you no one thinks that they can just pick up a putter in our putt tiger woods. But uh everyone thinks that with fighting for some reason. So I didn't because you know my IQ is above 70. And thank God for that. I know, right? But uh, so that's when I started training, and then I was like, I am going to become an MMA fighter. And then um brings us, I guess, to modern day and where that sort of came about. So it came about my original goal was professional wrestling, and then I turned that to MMA. So I knew from a young age that that's where I wanted to go.
Speaker 3When you realised that you probably weren't going to go down that normal path. I guess what were the things going through your head? You know, other people going to uni, other people are, you know, doing a trade, and you're like, I'm just gonna go fight people.
SpeakerIt's like for me, I just I never really thought about it. People worry too much about what others are doing. That's never really been my concern. If someone wants to go do a trade, more power to you. Someone wants to go to uni, smarter than me, by all means. Like, I was never one to be like, I was never heavily into academia when I was younger. Nowadays, actually, very much so. Very, very much so. But when I was younger, not really, just never really captured my interest. If I read something, something that interests me, if I'm watching something, I'm listening to something, something that directly interests me, not today then the rug maker of Mazarie Sharif, real book, um, that we had to study for English. I never read that. I did a whole book report, by the way, and I got a seven out of ten. Do not know how I pulled this off. Any of my English teachers listening to this, Miss Alice. Jem. And uh I read the blurb and did my entire book report on the blurb. Kid you not. Never read that book. I never read any of the books.
Speaker 3You were good at drama.
SpeakerI pulled that off. Three body paragraphs. He meant to do five, but I was a slow writer And uh so it's those ape hands. I'm like, for those of you listening at home, I'm like not fully evolved as a human being. I'm like predominantly chimp. Like people like look on the street, everyone's like looking over. Like you think they're looking because I'm a fairly muscular guy. No, they're just wondering how I'm wearing clothes. It speaks.
Speaker 3You just said you had an IQ above 70. I swear he does.
SpeakerJust scraping. But um, it was uh, yeah, I've never really just been concerned with like other people. Like whatever goals people want to pursue, I think more power to them. Like, we need like those people in the world, we need the builders, we need the psychologists, we need these things. For me, I was never gonna fit in those molds, and I don't think it's good if you're not one that fits into that to feel you have to do that. But I was always more outgoing and I was like, woo! Like out there, and I always love that. So for me, there was never really a normal job that was ever gonna be able to contain that. So I don't want to do something that I wake up and I'm not happy. For me, that's when I then looked at MMA and I've always been a rather athletic guy in general. That then became a perfect fit. And again, it's all about the spotlight. And to be honest, one of my biggest goals was being able to talk on a microphone for a while. And I love microphones, and I'm really not that good at other things, but I'm excellent at beating people up, and when you win, you get to talk on a microphone. So it's very motivating for me.
Speaker 3That's a good carrot on the stick for you. I like it. What's the difference, in your opinion, between confidence and ego?
SpeakerUh confidence is based on reality. Arrogance is a belief that isn't real. So if I'm like, I'm the strongest man in the world, that's arrogance. But if I say I'm a fairly physically strong guy, that's just me being confident. That's a provable fact. Arrogance is belief that you are better than you are. Confidence is just you believing in yourself and believing in the skills that you actually have. I think I think if you're gonna be, I guess, in sports or even a leadership role or something, I think you do need a little bit of an ego because you do need to have that confidence in yourself and you do need that self-belief. And I think that does build a slight ego. And I don't think a slight ego is bad. I think when it starts getting over the top and you move from confidence to arrogance, that's when that's an issue.
Speaker 3Do you think a lot of men fake confidence?
SpeakerOh, absolutely. I think men these days are very lost, and that's through social media, that's through the foods we eat, through even vaping. Vaping is a horrible, horrible thing. I again I recommend people actually look it up. Trace amounts of titanium that ruin your testosterone. So you actually become less manly the more you vape. Not even just by the visual, like by what you're actually doing. If you're a man, don't vape. Like, what's really? You need grape in your mouth? Choose some bubblegum. Anyway, and uh they look. To these figures, and some figures aren't good. For example, they'll look at say grifters and be like, ah, this guy's saying X, Y, and Z. I like that. And then they'll be like, I have to adopt all the things he's doing. No, you don't realize that these people are doing that. They're generally trying to sell a pyramid scheme, or they're just making money off you. They're making money off your misfortune. Stop basing your self-worth off other people. Like, go out, go out in the sun, touch grass. Social media isn't real. Like, literally, isn't real. So for me, I do charity work on Christmas, right? I give food and presents to people that are less fortunate. So I do that on the church on Mirable Street, right? Through my doctor. He organizes that. Now I do that. I've done one post ever, I've done that for 10 years, done for a decade. You will see one post on social media I ever did about that. And I did it because this guy came down and he brought, I think it was like 30 or 40 backpacks, and they were full of blankets, food, drink bottles, pillows, all these things for people who sleep rough. And I thought that guy needs a shout-out. Like that was the most beautiful thing that I've seen. And that was gorgeous. He just did that. He paid for it all himself, like it was gorgeous. So I felt he needed a shout-out. That's the one time. And I do that every year on Christmas. Then you'll get people that, for example, I use this because she was exposed. There was this chick. She was like doing a little TikTok dance and whatever weird stuff they do. It's like you should pick up rubbish on the beach, and was like showing her, like picking up like the rubbish, putting it in a bag. And then once the filming stopped, she just left the bag on the beach and walked off. And someone was filming her doing that. But in her social media post, it looks like she's like, oh my God, just clean the beach. And then she just walked off, leaving the rubbish directly there. That people don't realize that that's the reality of social media. They look at these things and they go, Oh, look how beautiful that woman is. Oh, why can't I get that? Oh, look, look how jack that guy is. Oh, why can't I do that? All these things, right? And they don't just go. These are people that are picking the perfect angles, filtering these things, and spending everything they can just to give that perceived look. And a lot of them aren't actually happy either. And they base their self-worth on how many little likes they get and little dopamine rushes. That's where I think these days men are lost. Like they look at these, say, fit influencers, right? I don't realize how much gear these guys take. They don't realize that all these guys do full-time is lift weights, and then they'll most of them will pretend to be natural. So then they can sell programs. And then do a grift. And then you're like, oh my God, I need to do that. No. If you want to look like that guy, pump like 500 MG of test, smash some out of droll, and lift heavy. But you're not gonna do that. You're gonna listen to whatever this guy's trying to tell you. Drink your kelp shake. Nothing. And there you go. You're still gonna be unhappy.
Speaker 3Oh, damn it. I should uh stop my program with my kelp shakes and pushups. Damn it, I'm gonna sucker done.
SpeakerBut that's where, so that's why men these days are lost. That's why so many of them are going down like this incel route, because they're generally, and this is a thing, they have low testosterone, and low testosterone in men uh causes depression, and then depression manifests as anger in a lot of men. So um there was a brilliant thesis actually written on this, shed out, actually, weirdly enough, to my missus, who wrote this, got published. So it's uh about traiton state anger in men, and a massive correlation with a lot of these things was low testosterone. And low testosterone causes depression, depression in men manifests as anger, and that's why they're always so angry. And they're these dudes that sit at home, no vitamin D, they're sitting in a dark room, and then they're hating life. They're like, why don't women like me? Well, you're not out anywhere. Where are you meeting a woman? Like online while you insult her, she'll loves me because of this. Neil Strauss told me that. And uh Neil Strauss, for those of you listening, uh, wrote a book called, geez, what was it called? The game or something it was, and it's about how to pick up women in the most efficient way possible. And it turns out, you know, you could just be a nice person, and weirdly enough, you might meet a woman on a shocking, don't need to do all this crazy stuff. Just say hi. Hi, I'm normal. Lovely to meet you.
Speaker 3Oh, it's turning into a a dating app. Oh guys, I'm here are some tips. Steamy times to pick up women with real life.
Speakersteamy times. But but yeah, uh uh that's where I feel like modern day men are struggling. So I think they're struggling with identity, they're struggling with how demonized masculinity is becoming. And the term there shouldn't be a term toxic masculinity. That's disgusting. Just like there's not toxic femininity, there's just toxic people and toxic traits. There's nothing toxic about masculinity. Masculinity, people keep viewing is wrong, by the way. They go, masculinity is about oh, you're gonna oppress people, you're gonna do it. No, it's not. Masculinity is just being confident, being wanting to be a protector. What's wrong with that? If I saw someone getting beat up, I'm not like, oh, yeah, sucks to be them. I'd if like I'll stop that because that's horrid. Like I don't I detest street violence, I detest those things. That's having confidence, being motivated, wanting to achieve. That's being masculine, that's awesome. Like, what's toxic about that? And they'll just they'll add on like a terrible trait about that's masculinity. Oh, and that's why men these days are quite lost, because if they're deemed too masculine, they'll be demonized online by people who are habitually online. It's a very small vocal minority that then again they base their self-worth on, which is horrid. And these days you're seeing it. Men men are getting more feminized. And generally, like you would know as a woman, you know, you enter like feminine men with dudes walking around.
Speaker 3If a dude has smaller arms than me, see ya later.
SpeakerYeah, you know what I mean? Like you just so that's that's where I think men these days are a bit lost. Guys have got some competition, I'm telling you. Strong woman.
Speaker 3I guess when you're talking about all that, when life does hit hard though, even for you, what do you what do you do with that or what do you do for yourself?
SpeakerSee, I've been lucky. I have an amazing group of very close friends that have held me through sometimes. So I've I've had some horrible times with family again causing issues. As a matter of fact, it was one of the leading things leading into my very first title fight that actually destroyed me for that. Because during that fight, I actually wanted to die. I wanted to die all in the lead up of it. The only time in my life where I've actually ever thought about taking my life because uh it was just so bad at home. I was thrown into a husband role to my mum, and she was trying to make me the father to my older brother. Like, Jace, what are we gonna do? I was giving them money, they were living off me rent-free, because my brother would say that he had all this money, and my mum, again, very gullible woman. Love her to death, bit gullible. Uh, he would say that, and again, my brother is a pathological liar because he just he's one of them who has failed but doesn't want people to know he's failed, so he just pretends to be all these things. So he would say he has all his money in America, and you know, it's all frozen because there was a court case where he had a mate who killed a guy because he's a mafioso and he's the head honcho to all these things. This guy should write books. If he wrote a like fiction book, my god, that would sell. And uh we'll note that down. Yeah, so then he was like, My money would change the net worth of Australia if it like came over. I was like, that's not even how economics works. Anyway, and um then so I would give so my I would give my mum money and then she would just give it to him, and then he would spend it on drugs and alcohol and pretend like he's a high roller and uh living off borrowed money. So that sentence broke because uh when my mum uh my mum and dad divorced when I was younger, I lived with my man for a year, then I moved to my mum to go help her. Then from there I I was sort of thrown into that role from when I was 16 onwards, or sort of thrown into like a husband role, despite the fact I'm a child, and that's ridiculous. Like I was looked at like to be a provider, so I didn't really have too much of a childhood from sort of 16 up. I was sort of treated as an adult. So I was working and I would work, uh I'd work a lot actually. I'd work Monday, Tuesday, Friday, Saturday. So I'd finish school and my mum would pick me up and drive me straight to Belmont Hungry Jacks. That's my first job. And then I would uh work from there from four till midnight. Then my mum would come out, pick me up. I lived in Torquay at the time, drive me back home, and then get up for school and do that, right? So I'd do that four days a week. Then we'd give her money and stuff to help with rent and things like that. So my brother would never pay anything at all, and then just keep lying, keep thinking, just take take checks who live with us rent-free, despite again, seven years older than me, never worked, he worked three days ever in his whole life. And so that put on massive stress. So then we'll go on in where now you're struggling to make money. Like I'm I'm trying to be in school, doing part-time jobs, just trying to do all these things, and then I'm giving money, and then we'd be behind, and then we got evicted from our house in Torquay because of that. We're constantly two weeks behind in rent because I keep giving my mom money and she keep giving it to him, and then he came and mooched with us when we moved after that as well. That was just so testing times, and then he would try and get on all these medications and then all this shit. And then every time something went wrong, what are we gonna do? What are we gonna do? What are we gonna do? Like it's constantly thrown on me. So I had all these stresses. I was trying to make weight. So for those of you listening at home, I walk around at 80 kilos, fairly heavily muscled for vanity reasons. Like and uh I can't confirm this. Like it's it's just I again I'm honest, even with that, I do it because I like it. But I would fight at 61 kilos, so that is very, very small. There's a 19 kilo drop. So making weight was very, very hard and mentally very draining, especially when I was younger and I didn't have the level of maturity that I have now. So that was and then I lost that fight because I was just mentally there. And I was actually winning that fight for a long time. Uh fought a guy, Mitch Martin, undefeated, he was at the time, and then finished his career undefeated as well. Awesome fighter, great dude. It was one minute left in the fight, and I'd won everything. And then he finished me lastly because my body just shut down. I was so mentally not ready for that because of how depressed I was leading up. I just wanted to die. I was hoping when I was flying on the plane it would crash. I was hoping when I was in the car, someone would just T-bone us. I just I never wanted to do it myself, but I wanted something to happen where I would just no longer be alive. Then I lost that fun. I went into a huge depression afterwards. And um, because that was my dream. My dream was to wear a title belt, which I achieved later in life, which aces and I'm happy. But uh that was always the dream. The belt, the belt was a very big thing to me because of pro wrestling. Yeah, that so from there that uh I struggled really hard with that, and then I just had great people around me, and I realized that there's always more to live for. Like when you when you look at life, it again, it's always the surface. You'll look at the surface and you'll see it. There's hot coals on the ground. Ah, it hurts to step. You're not seeing the water afterwards, you're not seeing how nice it's gonna be when you hop in there. You'll see the hot coals. That can be the thing that defeats everyone. Oh, I don't want to go on that. That's it, it's too much, too hard. You're not seeing that the the beautiful oasis that's about to come. And I was lucky enough that I always did keep that in mind in the surface level, even when it was at its worst, was never enough for me to lose that belief that it will get better as long as I keep doing the right things. And that's sort of how I pick myself up there. And I have very close people around me that um of like enough, I guess, to to have, and you generally do want a good support network around you if you can have it. And that and the issue, I I guess, as well, to bring back to a previous point where like men feel these days, men feel lost because they can't express themselves and like you're deemed weak if you express yourself. There's a big difference between whinging and talking. Winging and whining, oh, this sucks, oh no. Okay, yeah, no one's gonna listen to that. Stop whining, but you can talk about your issues. Talking about something and figuring out a strategy to improve is very different to being like the weather's too hot, I don't like it. Yeah, cool, man. But if you're like, oh geez, I'm like struggling with this, I'm feeling really depressed, you know, broke up, you know, with your partner, you know, oh, you got fired from your job with these things. Damn, I'm low. Well, now you can talk about that. Hell, what is a step forward? Or what should I do? Oh, I'm a bit lost. These are the things you should be able to talk about and not feel ashamed. And people that are close to you won't judge you on that. The people around you love you regardless and they'll help you. If you just sit there and whinge, oh, I lost my job. Oh, what are you gonna do? I'm gonna bum on Central Inc. eat some chips, cry myself to sleep, use the tears to fill a bath. Like that's yeah, not very productive. People aren't gonna listen to that because there's no there's nothing productive out of that. But if you're talking about your issues, you should be able to. You should have close friends around you where they're not going to make fun of you for that. They want to help you, they want to aid you. And yeah. So when I was at my darkest, I had that. And then I had great people around me that would listen. And that helped. And then I just knew that I had goals and I always wanted to make sure I could take care of my family, always wanted to make sure that I could achieve these things. And I was like, if I stop being around, how am I gonna do that? Yeah. So that sort of helped motivate me and get me through things and continue then being me.
Speaker 3That's it.
SpeakerThat's why you never really see me depressed. Like, really? When's the like you've let the listeners know, and this is a very true thing. We've known each other for a decade now. When have you ever really seen me like sad?
Speaker 3You're definitely one of the most positive people I know. Maybe like overly positive. Like, dude, like, let me just be sad for a minute. No, no, won't let it. No, like your shake out of it.
SpeakerBecause that's like, and legitimately, that's my outlook in life. Like, the biggest thing for me, I uh I can also say, I guess, in bringing myself out when I was uh did have that depression, was and I've just noticed this, it's human nature. Everyone focuses on the negative. I just always focus on the positive. So even if I have a negative in my day, you might have what one or two tops, and then I have 15 positives. Why would I not then have a good day? Why am I not smiling? And that's sort of how I perceive life and what sort of helps me with that. So yeah, that's how I sort of get myself out of anything ever negative. So I'm always smiling, always happy.
Speaker 3And you were talking about a fight before. How do you come back mentally after a bad result or maybe a rough performance?
SpeakerYou're never gonna feel good from a loss. Well, you know, I've had some losses, sucks. I've had a lot of wins. Feel amazing on a win, you feel terrible on a loss. It's about letting knowing that that feeling is there, it's valid, sucks. If you didn't care about losing, you don't care about what's happening. And that means you have no passion and you shouldn't be doing what you're doing. So the first thing is overcoming the emotional part, and that stings. And let it sting. Valid. Again, don't push away these emotions. Feel them. It's normal. If you want to be sad after your loss, feel sad. Sucks. Just don't dwell on it. Anyone can be a loser if they tell themselves that. Like, do you know how many people that are ultra successful in life that have had so many failures? Failure, if you learn from it, can become a success. Ah, I did this and this wrong, so I won't do that. Oh, now, now it's led to success. And that's like that goes for the same in anything. Relationships, business, leadership, whatever you want. That's how that goes. And learning from your failures and then not being doomed to make the same mistake will get you very far in life. And that's how I analyze any sort of loss. And I go, okay, a loss for what reason? X, Y, or Z. Maybe it was a cardio issue. Need to do less weights and do more running. There you go. Oh well, good result. Now I have cardio. Like little things.
Speaker 3So, what advice would you give to someone who feels a bit lost and doesn't really know what they're doing with their life yet?
SpeakerWhat's your passion? That's what I would get them to ask themselves immediately. Everyone has a passion, even when they say they don't. No one sits at home and does actually nothing. Anything can be a passion. People go, oh, I'm not passionate about anything. Oh, what do you like to like cooking? I like cooking. Why don't you pursue that? There's so many things that they go, oh, I don't know what I'm gonna do because they're not looking hard enough. What is your passion? There are so many avenues you can go down. And that's why I say every single person, no matter what, you could be the most dull person in the world. Everyone has a passion. And everyone has like you can meet the most emo person. I don't even know if they exist anymore, emos.
Speaker 3I still listen to simple plans, so yes, we're still here.
SpeakerMy chemical romance. Sorry. Like there's always something. So yeah, I I think when people are like, oh, I'm lost. I think you're just not looking hard enough. You're not seeing the forest for the trees. And again, we're taught to do that. You're not taught to be a free thinker to go, hey, oh, I don't have any passions. Oh, I'm lost. What do you like? I don't like anything. Jeez, you're fun at parties. Like, everyone likes something. No one, like, people will make the joke, I wake up early just to hate people longer. Sick man. Well, there's your passion. You hate people. Go be a like construction worker where you're on the roads and you're disrupting traffic.
Speaker 2There you go.
Speaker 3There you go, so please uh please dial uh 1-800 Jason. Find your passion.
SpeakerGo be a lollipop man and keep it on stop for longer than it needs to be. There you go. You can hate people all day long. Like they'll hate you too. Exactly. There's always something. There's always something. Well, think about where you hate the most of them. Do that.
Speaker 3Whatever it is, just go find your passion. Find your passion. I love it. Well, thank you so much, Jason, for that very interesting conversation.
SpeakerSo you didn't see that coming, eh?
Speaker 3I shall now shake your hand very gently and say goodbye.
SpeakerAppreciate you, Mrs. Anna. The words are better placed because you're in it.