Rambles and Shambles with Ana
Rambles and Shambles with Ana is a podcast exploring work, leadership, and everything that doesn’t fit on a LinkedIn profile. Relaxed conversations about careers, how people ended up where they are, and what’s shaped them along the way. It’s for people who are curious about how personal stories unfold, and who knows, you might have a few reflective moments yourself.
Rambles and Shambles with Ana
EP019 - Coffee Culture and the Search for More
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Ivan grew up in a small Croatian village, went to a school with only a handful of students, and is now finishing his master’s while working across corporate marketing and hospitality.
In this conversation, we talk about growing up in rural Croatia, choosing sociology and demographics almost by accident, travelling to Turkey and the United States, and learning how differently people connect across cultures. We also talk about leading a major student cinema project, handling criticism, leaving a corporate job that does not feel meaningful, and being in your twenties without a clear plan for what comes next.
This episode is about curiosity, trying different paths, and wanting your work to matter to someone beyond yourself.
Yellow. This is Rambles and Shambles with Ana. Today I'm sitting with Ivan. I met him online through Instagram. And the first time I met him in real life, we sat in this dodgy corner in some cafe hidden away in Zagreb. He's currently studying his masters and interviewed me on what it's like being a nausea Croatian. And now I'm returning the favor interviewing him. So hello Yvonne. Hello, thank you for having me. Maybe just to kick off, what is your normal day in Zagreb look like at the moment?
SpeakerWell, it depends. I have a lot of going on right now. I work uh two jobs. Started working uh corporate last September, so it's uh nine months currently. And also on Saturdays, I work at a restaurant, so I've been a wait ring, and I've been filming uh little Instagram reels for them as well, so I've been you know uh editing as well. Oh, even the influencer, yeah. Yeah, hidden influencer, hidden gem, and influencer in making, I hope. And also I've been uh doing uh master's uh thesis currently. So I usually wake up at 5:30 in the mor a.m. I have my breakfast, I go to the gym, then I um go to do my job, you know, nine hours, eight hours, depends on the day. Uh and after that, you know, I have my uh own time for my friends. I also like to watch series, you know, Netflix. And yeah, and this then basically I go to sleep, uh, I wait for the weekend. And on Sundays, I love to go um uh visit home. I'm not from Zagreb, I'm not from the capital, I'm from a smaller town. Uh it's one hour away from Zagreb. Yeah, and I visit my mom. Nice. So I basically told you my whole week, not only a day.
Speaker 1That's all good. If I was to go visit your mom, yeah, what would she tell me you were always getting in trouble for when you were a kid?
SpeakerWell, I'm the youngest, so you know the youngest don't get in trouble. We make the trouble. Uh yeah, I don't think that I uh was actually a troublemaker uh growing up. I did cry a lot, and uh I would always, you know, I I really like the attention, especially for my mom. So yeah, growing up, I was really like I didn't cause headache to my mom. I would play uh a lot uh outside. Our family home is in the village, so you know I could be uh out all day uh walking around the village, going to my neighbor's house. I have family in the village as well, so we were all hanging out. Yeah, I don't think that she would know what to say, honestly.
Speaker 1So did you go to primary school in the village or yeah, yeah.
SpeakerSo it's uh first uh to fourth grade uh in our village, and then we go to the town for the next four years, and then we uh choose high school.
Speaker 1How many students would be in the primary school?
SpeakerUh till fourth grade. Yeah. There were in the whole school. So our village there's a lot of Czech people, uh Czech minority. So we had in one building two schools. It was Croatian and Czech school. So yeah, so in the whole school, I think there was like 15 of us.
Speaker 1You got two schools with seven and a half age.
SpeakerYeah, uh basically, my uh at my grade, so I uh had two classmates, and in Czech school, there were two of them, but one of them moved to the to town, so it basically four of us in the whole generation. But it was it was it's funny, I don't think that they do it like that anymore. But uh one teacher was for all four grades, so it was a lot for her, for our teacher. But yeah, I actually really like going to that school. Uh, some parents would go uh would um assign uh their kids to town school, but I actually really like it because our teacher couldn't uh give much attention to every single grade. You know, you get you would get a task and you would uh work on that while she's teaching uh the other generation. But we had our backyard, so we would play uh you know play games a lot uh before and after school. During uh fall, we would actually have to store woods uh in the like the storage spots. Yeah, like a yeah, uh so we would have to uh store woods, and uh that I I think that uh we have the most memories about that. You know, we would have to we would go in line and then we would uh pass uh woods uh one to another and then we would store it.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's free production, free live a child live.
SpeakerYeah, some parents uh didn't uh like that, but but it you know, we just had to do it character building. Yeah, if we wanted to be like warm during the winter, we had to do it. Uh yeah, it's not uh usual creation thing, I think. I I haven't heard people uh having that tradition in their school.
Speaker 1That's interesting. So, what was your favorite subject?
SpeakerI don't remember my favorite subject uh in primary school. I don't think that I had one. I was just like going there. We had one teacher for you know for all the subjects, except for German and uh the religion classes. But I always liked history. I I really liked uh history in uh eighth grade, seventh grade when you start learning more about uh 20th century history. And I always had good uh professor teachers that were actually uh teaching us history. So I think that history would be number one, and I actually liked English, it was my second foreign language. The first one was German. I liked it because I think that I was a little bit better than uh other kids that were, you know.
Speaker 1So are you a bit competitive when it comes to that?
SpeakerYeah, I mean uh I stopped being competitive maybe in high school or in your uni, especially. In uni, I always looked at other classes like this is my networking space, and uh I'm I came here to learn, of course. But I think at the end of the day, it the most important thing is unless you're engineering or in that field, if you're in sociology and demographics uh like I am, I think the more important thing is to understand people and understand where you uh are at the moment, like the economic stage of uh people here living here, how do they live every day-to-day life of uh average person? You have to understand that to be a good you know sociologist or uh person in demographics. So I didn't really study my I mean I did I did uh study, but not, you know, I was not competing with everyone else.
Speaker 1You moved to the town to do high school?
SpeakerI mean, I I was taking a bus, you know, it's okay it's uh six kilometers away from the city center, so town center. It's a small place, so you know I didn't have to move.
Speaker 1Okay, so you caught the bus to the town to do high school, and is that another four years?
SpeakerYeah, four years of high school. Um, my high school I studied, you know, hotel management. Okay, and I actually really liked tourism and I always wanted to study that. My family was uh kind of against it because the university that I wanted to go to, faculty, uh, is in Opatia. It's a small, smaller town. Yeah, it's a smaller town, smaller place. And uh at the end of the day, you would get uh economics degree. It would not be any different from uh economics degree here in Zagreb. So they would they were against it because they thought that it would be a better choice, better thing to go to Zagreb or Warasdin or some other uh cities to study that. And then I was like, no, I'm not gonna listen to you, I'm gonna study what I want. And then I uh I I started looking into other universities. Yeah.
Speaker 1So how did you choose the high school of tourism? What is that?
SpeakerBecause we uh they have really good uh language uh subjects. Uh like yeah, we had uh four hours of English per week, three hours of German, and two hours of French, and four hours of Croatian, of course. Uh I really liked uh languages, so I didn't want to go to gymnasium, like in the general school, yeah. General school. Yeah, I I because I wanted to have some kind of degree after high school, because I always knew that I'm gonna that I was gonna go to university. It was it was not even something that you know my family always expected for me to go to uni since I was a kid. So it was a it was a normal thing, yeah, you're gonna go to uni one day. But I I didn't go to uh general school just in case something happens, if uh I I don't get to afford going to uni or something else. Uh you never know. Or if I drop out, drop out of uh uni at one point. So I wanted to be you know secure. Uh even though that degree doesn't mean a lot, you know, high school diploma. At the end of the day, it's not you know much.
Speaker 1Then you finished high school and started university. Did you know what you were going to study at university?
SpeakerOr no, actually, I I mean I wanted many things. So I wanted to study uh management in uh tourism, but yeah, I told you about that. My family wanted uh me to study something else. So I was thinking about studying languages. Uh I didn't get into uh so I wanted to study German and English. Mind you, I don't even know German.
Speaker 1Nein!
SpeakerWhat's up? Yeah, I had uh German for 12 years, so throughout my whole school programs, uh I knew a little bit of German. The issue is with uh languages, when you have them in school, if you have many hours per week, you think that you're good at them. But you know, uh it turns out you might not be as good as you think you are. So thankfully I didn't get into. Uh at the moment, I was uh I was not really happy. I was I was so stressed out. I thought, you know, it's over for me, I don't know what I'm gonna do. So I would started looking uh into other programs. I wanted to study PR, I uh was looking into sociology, and then I saw this department, demographics, and creatian diaspora. So I I looked into subjects that there are, and uh funnily enough, I uh literally saw a subject called Creations in uh Australia. That was the subject, and I was like, oh wait, wait a minute, wait a minute. And I was like, there were there's enough creations in Australia uh to be a whole subject, and then uh that caught my attention, and then I started looking at other subjects on that department, and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna put that on the list. I I like that there's enough history and also uh economics and sociology aspects of uh of it all. So I really was interested by that whole department, even though I didn't really know what demographics are. I couldn't tell you the whole definition at the moment. Yeah, but I like the subjects. So yeah, so um I ended up getting into sociology and demographics. That's uh part of the faculty of Croatian uh studies, and that faculty is part of the University of Zagreb. I got into uni in the peak of COVID, and Croatia managed COVID, you know, it really depended on the county. And when it comes to universities, it really all uh deacons had the whole power to decide whether we're gonna go to uh classes or not. And our deacon at the moment, Dean, no, Dean, uh our dean at the moment decided uh for us to go to uh classes, and I think that that was the best thing ever. So we basically went from the beginning of semester till basically Christmas. It was that round, and then uh COVID was exploded, it was 2020. So the first lockdown uh was uh during my high school. We didn't have a prom, we didn't have uh any of that stuff, unfortunately. Um what a shame! Yeah, we actually yeah, I think that we must missed out on uh a little, you know, we didn't get to experience that, but we did gather uh to celebrate the end of the school year because it was June and we were able to uh meet up uh at one place. So yeah, we did uh celebrate that a little. And then I went to uni. I met so many amazing people. I think the sociology, the best thing about that is that people, open-minded people, and some of them were close-minded, but yeah, all kinds of people are on sociology, and they're so open to meeting to other people, and they really like to talk. So uh I really like that I ended up studying sociology and demographics as well.
Speaker 1What are some of the subjects or the things that you look at?
SpeakerWell, I never liked the classic sociology, you know. I didn't like studying the sociology throughout history. I really like current sociology, and I liked uh not the obvious compulsory subjects. Yeah, I didn't like compulsory subjects. I like the ones that you could choose. I actually really liked sociology in HR, that was my favorite subject. But I also liked studying about minor groups, I liked the uh and also I think it was on second year, I think it's sociology of uh delinquency. Is it the right term? Deliquencia. So it's basically if you don't behave in uh social norms, uh huh, if you break the rules, uh-huh, you would be a delicate.
Speaker 1Ah, yes, that makes sense. Uh-huh.
SpeakerDelinquence. Yeah. Yes. Uh I really like that subject. Uh actually, usually people that study sociology, most of them wanted to study psychology, but they didn't get into, or for some other reasons, they didn't get into that. So they uh decided to study sociology. But I actually never was into that. I was more into social behavior, and I really liked talking about that and learning about that. So yeah, I think that that's the thing that most. I don't I don't think that I was uh delinquent. A delinquent, yeah. You're a good boy, got it. No, but uh really I don't think that I was uh part of that. But I really was interested in why people are behaving in that way, and it's not only in your mind, it's the your upbringing, it's your uh and it doesn't have to be that either. It can be your group of people in school, you could be bullied or so it was interesting for me to study about that and get into that. So I think that that's the most the thing that I like the most about sociology.
Speaker 1And what came after studying? You then moved to your master's?
SpeakerYeah. Yeah, in Croatia, I after finishing bachelor's degree, you just go straight to the master's. It's it's not even, you know, you don't even think about it. I think that 90% of people, if they get the chance to get into master's, they go. Um, so yeah, currently I'm doing master's degree. I'm finishing up. I took a gap year to do my uh master's thesis, and also here in Croatia it's pretty popular to do the gap year, so you can work on uh student uh contract, it's easier, way easier to find a job. You get a little bit of experience in like a real office job. There's no rule, but there's uh big chances of you getting uh the job after doing one year of uh you know student contract in the office.
Speaker 1So, what was your first job other than carrying the wood in your primary school?
SpeakerThe one that was paid or uh no in high school, we had to do so. I studied hotel management, so I had to do every uh bit of hotel work. So I had to clean rooms, I had to work in the restaurants, uh, I had to work at a reception, and it was not paid. Okay. So yeah, that's not so that's a little bit of unpaid labor as well. My first pay job was uh bartending uh or waitering in my hometown. Uh I did that for quite some time. I think I uh worked for them for two years. But uh the thing is I worked summers uh during the summer, and then when uni starts started, I would just work weekends because you know it's not in my uh I didn't study in my hometown. And then one summer I went and uh did summer season in the island of Pag. Also, I I was waitering in the restaurant. Uh once you get into waitering, it's really hard to get out of that. So, you know, it's uh the money is the best uh out of all the you know jobs you get tips and everything. Yeah, and then I went on that work and travel program to United States two summers ago, so summer of 2024.
Speaker 1What is the work and travel program? Is that something organized through the country or through uni or?
SpeakerUh no, so it's basically uh it's the agencies uh that actually organize that. So creation, it's um pretty popular here in Eastern Europe. So you basically apply for uh the program, you have to pay for it, and then they help you help you find a job. We applied for uh United States. I don't know if anyone else, uh if uh someone goes to some other countries. Uh I know that there's some programs for Australia as well, but it's not really summer season, you would uh have to go for a whole year and do some jobs. So uh we applied for the program for you know, you basically do summer seasons, it's not in uh it's not an office job. Uh although my friend of mine uh she got her master's degree in uh graphic design and she's going to Miami. I think it's she's basically like she's maybe on the plane as we speak. Yeah, so she's going to Miami and she's gonna work off a job uh in one of the American companies. But yeah, I uh applied for the program. You have to you I had to get the visa, uh I had to wait. And then I went uh in Massachusetts, Martha's Vineyard. I did the whole summer season there, yeah. It was it was quite difficult difficult, honestly. Uh there were a lot of people from uh Croatia and Balkans, but it was uh it was really like cultural shock, honestly, for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1And how did you decide to want to go to the US out of all of Europe at your doorstep?
SpeakerI think that uh, you know, it's only for the summer. I wanted to experience that that culture. I wanted to, you know, after you work for the whole summer, you get to travel throughout States. So uh I really wanted to visit New York City. I really wanted to visit Chicago. So on uh while studying Croatian diaspora, we really were learning a lot about Croatians in Chicago. There's a huge group of people living there, Croatian people living there. Um, so yeah, that's that's one of the reasons. And uh yeah, so I wanted to you know do it all. Uh here in Croatia, while you're a student, you have so many opportunities. One of them being going to United States, and you know, you know, you're a student, so there's not you know much you can do. You I would work here or something uh during the summer, so I got the chance to go to the United States, so why not? And um at one point during the beginning of master's degree, I just realized like I have two more years to you know experience it all. So I applied for the program. I started uh volunteering in one of the student groups, I got to uh actually lead one of the biggest projects, uh student projects here in Croatia. And it was so I just wanted to experience it all. So I I didn't want to just study, go out, and you know, just live until I finish, you know, my uni. I wanted to experience it all. So yeah, that's the reason actually why I applied.
unknownYeah.
Speaker 1And so what was this project that you did as part of the students?
SpeakerIt was uh driving Kino Zagreb, so it's open cinema. Uh yeah, so when I was the project manager, uh we expanded the project uh for one more week. So uh instead of two weeks, there were three weeks of uh movies. It was all free for uh people visiting. So it's basically uh six nights, six different movies, six different genres, and uh besides that we would organize you know uh dance classes on the parking lot before the movie starts. Oh, that's the quizzes. There's a really lot we did.
Speaker 1Um very American movie from my own.
SpeakerYeah, yeah, yeah. So we uh basically the project is uh uh this year it was the 14th year of doing of the project. This year I'm the mentor of the project. So we basically why the project is so big. We uh actually work with other uh with Croatian uh companies, and uh we basically like make a deal with them. They uh we do the marketing on the project for them, and then they give us uh donations, money, or products. So we basically have a goodie bag filled with you know uh with the products of our sponsors uh for if when you come. Uh and also we have free popcorn, uh sodas, uh really a lot of it.
Speaker 1And what did you learn in that project about time, discipline, stakeholder management?
SpeakerYeah, so I think that uh uh yeah, it really did shape me uh as a human, as a person. Uh the thing that I uh learned the most is um the importance of being good to people that you're working with? Yeah, working with. So I was uh pro so there's 20 people that I was working with, uh, and they were I was have to give them the task, you know. I I uh they were waiting for me to give the order, let's say. Um so yeah, I think that the importance of uh talking to them and asking uh for a feedback and if they're happy with my leadership and everything uh that goes with it, I think that that's the thing that I learned the most. Um and also uh it really uh taught me how to sell something, you know. Uh so I did uh go to meetings with these companies, and then at the end of the day, I'm a student, I don't have any you know work experience, and then I'm trying to ask for. Money from some company that's you know, why would I give you money? So you have to learn how to actually sell something. Uh and I think that's a really good thing. So if so, oh if there's someone my age or younger, it doesn't matter. If you have the possibility to do something like that, I would highly recommend, you know, doing it. Uh I first when I uh actually uh joined the the organization, I didn't thought that it was, you know, that we that they had projects like that. I just wanted to meet people and just you know explore and experience that kind of you know structure to have friends doing the same project in our organization, you really get to uh know those people and they become really like a big part of your life. So I just wanted to have uh that in my life as well. So yeah, I didn't thought much about it. I didn't knew that I was gonna actually be a project uh manager in that uh organization. Yeah, but it turned out really good.
Speaker 1I love it from sociology to project management. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's wild. Um you mentioned that there was a bit of a culture shock when you went to the States. Yeah.
SpeakerYeah, same with uh I also went to Turkey exchange program. Uh so it was also quite different, but I would actually say that it's much different uh when I went to States. I don't know. Um the way that you connect with people, it's different. I don't think it's uh better or worse. I just you know you live a certain way the whole life, and then you go to other culture and you just see how it's so much different, and you're then you're the one who is actually a stranger in the country and you have to connect with the locals. It was just so interesting. So I that as well shaped me uh really, you know, a lot. Uh and then it taught me how important it is to have your circle of people, to have uh, you know, someone that you can talk to. Uh and it also taught me how to actually make that kind of connections because I have my circle, but it was here in Croatia. Yeah, and I didn't have that circle. I went alone on the full program, and I wanted to go alone to actually, you know, step out of the comfort zone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The everyday life, it was so much different. Waking up, even the coffee culture here in Croatia. We really like our coffee. We really like to, you know, sit around uh and meet uh with other people and sit for hours. We've been sitting here for two hours. So yeah, so uh they don't have that. They have coffees to go, and uh you know it's that's kind of difficult. How do you meet people? You know, you have to learn uh other ways to connect with people, you know, you don't get to have that. I just get to chase them down the street. Enjoy coffee. Yeah, so yeah, that's the difference.
Speaker 1So it was more, it was not so much the shock of the work.
SpeakerYeah, that was shock as well. Oh yeah, it was shocking because it was the first time. I mean, um it's so different than here because they uh do ask how you are, but also at the same time you don't feel like you don't feel like uh it's genuine? Yeah, it's yeah. I don't I don't wanna, you know, uh it might be, you know. You you never know, but uh but yeah, um it was uh it is different. A normal day here there uh while you work. I don't know, it's much different. I it's just the connection that you make here in Croatia on uh your job. Uh I think it's way more personal. Uh-huh. And you talk more about your you know personal life uh while there. I don't think that I got that kind of connection. Even with people that were from my country, I don't think uh we were as personal as I was I'm here in Croatia when I did summer seasons. And I kind of think that it, you know, you can learn a lot from that as well. At the end of the day, it's your work, you know. Even though you spend most of the day at work.
Speaker 1A lot of business and work cultures try to keep things very professional and people become very reserved about their personal life. Yeah. I'm like you, I like to sharing it to know people that I maybe even over share sometime with. Or maybe let me sometime over share, yeah. But it's it's so hard because you spend so many hours with these strangers. Yeah. And you gotta do work. Yeah, I can't just do work. I need to know. I need to know what did she say in the kitchen? No, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely hard. So you love traveling and working in different cultures.
SpeakerYeah.
Speaker 1Do you think that that's part of the sociology, as in it's part of the study essentially? And you always want to come back to Croatia, or how does that well?
SpeakerI think in my 20s, I would love to work around Europe. I I'm even considering maybe moving to some other city. But I would like to grow old here in Croatia. Uh but in my 20s, when I, you know, I don't have to settle at all. And 30s as well. I I don't think that that's uh for real. Uh traveling really uh taught me one thing, and it's the the world is a huge place. And being in one city, in one place, in one town, the whole life, it would be a waste, you know. I think that at the end of the day, I really want to live here. I want to have my base here in Croatia, but also I really want to like get my foot into the world, you know, as well. When you travel, you really uh do get horizons, you get to open them. How do you say that?
Speaker 1You just become more open-minded, you get experiences, you see more. Sometimes it's even hard to explain because you don't reflect on what it is. You just know something changed, but you're not sure exactly what it is.
SpeakerYeah. And I think that everyone should travel a little bit more, but not only for holidays, for work or for some kind of program experiences as well, because it really does change you as a person, and I think it it it's for the better.
Speaker 1I love doing imposter tourism where I go to a university and I take a class.
SpeakerOh, really? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1I went to UCLA. I went into a physics class for two hours and just studied. Um, I love experiencing the culture where I am.
SpeakerYeah, I I I didn't have the courage. I I I I I don't think that I would have the courage to do that actually, but why not actually?
Speaker 1Yeah, why not? So what's next for you once you've done your uh Mr. Masters? I don't know.
SpeakerI think that uh I'm at the place of life, and I think that I uh see people around me that my age are in the same position. We don't know yet. And uh that's the beauty of it. I think that our parents grew up and they were taught by their parents as well, by their parents as well, uh, to work at one job, and that's being your whole life, and then you work in one uh you know one desk and that's for the next 40 years, and then you retire and then you live. I really want to experience a lot of different things. Uh I'm interested in so many things. I live like filmmaking, even though I'm not professional at any, you know, I'm not professional at it at it, but I want to do so much, and I don't wanna just go in one uh direction. Maybe that answer will change in two years, we never know. But currently I really wanna, you know, open myself to so many possibilities and see where it takes me.
Speaker 1So yeah, I don't have a plan, no plan. I love it.
SpeakerYeah. Uh what is it about filmmaking that you like? I actually like the storytelling part. You know, you can tell a story without saying a word. You can just like film. You express what you feel, and uh if you don't feel like sharing it sharing it with uh anyone, you just don't have to. So you know, you you don't have to get any criticism. You can just like keep it or you can just like you know work a little bit more before you uh show it to anyone. But so yeah, I I like that. Do you struggle with criticism or do you welcome it? Well, I like to hear criticism. Doesn't mean that I that I take it well. Yeah, uh I yeah, I I really like to hear criticism, even if it's not constructive. I just like to hear what people think. And if it's not constructive, I just think like I start thinking about why why would you say that? And then I started analyzing you. Uh yeah, but um it it it does get to me, actually. I I really uh I think that there is this a little bit uh people pleasing moment for me as well. I like to please everyone, but I don't like uh getting people mad or so I think that I uh when it comes to criticism, uh it does get to my heart.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah. Has there been a time where you've got some criticism either in one of your jobs or anything?
SpeakerUm well um uh when I started working corporate, I really have a good mentor. Uh so she didn't give me hard times. When it comes to waitering, I worked and I still work for them. They did criticize me a lot in the beginning, especially the owner, uh, but he was criticizing because he saw the potential, he saw that it's worth him putting his energy into me. Uh so I I think that I took that kind of well. But when it comes to you know social criticism in like in like social situations, that's where I don't take it well. You know, I just overthink why why did I do that or say that, or you know.
Speaker 1So the corporate job is that new or recent?
SpeakerYeah, it's from the September. And uh when I was actually having the first interview, they told me like we want to teach you slowly everything about the job so you don't get uh you don't burn out uh in the first month.
Speaker 1Oh wow, how do I find a job like that?
SpeakerYeah, it's so nice. But yeah, but then you actually really stick to those words. Uh they really like gradually got me into the job. Uh and now that I'm you know enough, I'm leaving the job. I actually um yeah, I don't think that corporate is I when it comes to corporate life and uh corporate uh jobs, I wanna do something that I really see the difference in everyday life of people. And at the end of the day, corporate life does focus on money and uh I wanna, you know, make people uh around me their life better. At least one person, you know. Currently I'm working in trade marketing, and we're basically doing marketing for water company or and soda, uh, juices, and uh all that stuff. And even if I did the best in my job, it wouldn't make better a life better for you or for people around me, it would just make more profit. Yeah, and that's the thing that I'm thinking a lot about. It's just at the end of the day, if you like that, uh yeah, you know, do that is do you nine months is uh enough for you to realize that you're not meant to do that job, and I think it's the best thing to just you know step out of it. Doesn't mean that I'm not gonna get into corporate one day, but currently I don't think that I'm uh you know uh for that. Your ideal job is making the world a better place. Better place, yeah. Even for one person. Just for one person. It would be enough. We all as people think that we're special and that there's a mission for us, but I didn't I'm still I don't know what uh what's my uh calling is and uh what my task in life is, you know. But I think that you when you come to this earth, you have one task to do. Uh I don't know what my task is yet, but I think that there is something. Um and it's not mineral water. Yeah, it's not that it's not selling mineral water, okay.
Speaker 1Yeah, I love that. Do you have any advice you'd like to share with people driving home or to work right now?
SpeakerI think that you have to listen to your heart. Uh listen to your heart. Yeah. I think that you have to listen to your heart yourself and to live the life that you want and not to live the life that other people around you want. Um, you should listen to yourself and uh what you want, you what you really want. Yeah, so I think that that's my advice. You know, you just you do you.
Speaker 1I love it. Well, thank you very much, Yvonne or John in English. I shall now shake I shall now shake your hand, say goodbye, and we shall continue our three hour coffee. Thank you. Thank you.