SPEAKER_00 0:00

Yellow, this is Rambles and Shambles with Anna. Today I'm chatting with Lisa. Her career has taken a few turns from working as a chef to building a career in the beauty industry. Hi Anna. How are you feeling today?

SPEAKER_01 0:12

I must say I am a little bit nervous. I've never done this before and a little bit out of my comfort zone.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

So, Lisa, if I was to walk into your primary school classroom today as a teacher's aide and sit in the corner, what would I see you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Uh, I'd be reading, um, probably doing art, being very creative. A quiet kid, um, very studious.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

If I was to ask your parents if you were quiet and studious, would they also agree?

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Yes, definitely they would. Um, my dad was a very hard worker. He came to Australia at 15. He uh came with nothing, worked hard to build a life for himself and his family. Uh, he had very high expectations of us as kids, and at an early age we had chores that needed to be completed, so this created a strong work ethic. Um being studious at school, becoming a high achiever, so I was expected to do well. Was haven't you got a book to read? Haven't you got something to do?

unknown 1:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

So where did your dad come from? Dad came from Croatia. Oh, really? I did not know that. Yeah. Well, look at that, fellow Croatian.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Yeah, so I think that's uh hardworking, um, yeah, very, very high achieving things like that. Yeah. Do you have any siblings? Yes. I've got a brother and a sister. In the middle or I'm the oldest. Oh the eldest child. Yes, the eldest. So I think they made all their mistakes on me. I like that. The other two got got a free ride. Oh, I know the feeling.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Yes. Yeah. Love that. Did you have any extra responsibility growing up being the eldest in the family?

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Yeah, I think I they had big expectations of me, and um I had to help out a lot around the house, um, in the garden, help mum, but the expectation was to do really well at school. My dad wanted me to be a doctor, but that wasn't for me.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Well, yeah, arts and crafts and all the things.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Yeah, I was more on the creative side of things. You know, I loved cooking and I think that's where I started to think I wanted to do something creative. Loved being in the kitchen, loved eating food. So I think that was where I got my inspiration. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Yeah. Did you do food technology in high school? Yeah, that's where you is that when you already knew what you wanted to kind of do?

SPEAKER_01 2:36

I did enjoy it. I did really well at everything I did at school, I did really well. Um but I felt um home life wasn't great. So I think that's where I struggled and upon reflection I would have liked to have gone to uni and maybe progressed into a field where I could earn a higher income, be a little bit more intellectual, I suppose. But then I don't know if that would would have been me.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

So do you think you changed much when you moved to high school? Are you still quiet?

SPEAKER_01 3:05

I was I was still quiet. I sort of started to discover who I was and what I wanted to do, and maybe got a little bit rebellious and and um wanted to find my own way. Home life was strict and I wasn't allowed to do too much, so I think at the in the end I wanted to leave school and find my own path. I mean, we were always told if you wanted to achieve something and be successful, you had to work hard and always give it your best. I feel I did that, but life at home made it difficult. I'll never forget the look of disappointment on my dad's face when he realised that I'd left school in year eleven. Yeah, I think he thought that my life was over, that I wasn't going to achieve anything. But um once I started working and did my apprenticeship when I graduated and got my diploma, the look the look he was proud. No, he was very proud. Not that he said it, but you could see it.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Do you remember the day you woke up and you said to yourself, This is the decision I'm making?

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah, I felt like I'd just had enough. I wanted to change and I needed to make a change. Yeah, I just felt that I needed to get out of my own and start working and just make my own path.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Is an apprenticeship? I don't know much about this. So how do you how do you get in? Where do you apply? What is that process like?

SPEAKER_01 4:28

I applied for a couple of jobs, but then I did see that this particular hotel was offering apprenticeship. I had a three-month trial and I just loved it. Okay. Yeah, it was an international hotel working with a lot of great people. As a result, I've made a lot of lifelong friends from there. Um, we worked hard, loved the buzz, the adrenaline rush of a great service, catering for a wedding and some high-profile weddings at the time as well. It was a lot of fun. So in the end, I wanted to go overseas and work internationally. But then life took another change. I met my husband and then had a family. As a woman, we're told that we can do it all and achieve everything we want to do, but in reality, it's a juggle.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Uh, for successful female chefs especially, their career becomes their life. My life became my family.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

So Do you remember what it was like going from high school where you know you've got allocated times and classes and teachers kind of still spoon feeding you when things are due to now being out in your own having a job essentially at 16, 17? I think the independence was really good.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Like I moved out and it was fun. Uh worked hard, but it was it was good fun. Yeah, needed to step away from the strict family life and and make my own life. Yeah. Difficult, challenging, but was one of the best things I did.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

I can imagine you have to pay bills and who you remember, you know.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Yes, all the fun stuff that they don't teach you about at school. Yeah, big shit. Yeah, yeah, it was. But you know, you make it work. And being a bit of a perfectionist, I think I um kind of nailed it.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Um well, it was trade school back then, so it was it was good. Out of 20 people attending, there were two girls. It was very male-dominated. So us two girls had a lot to prove. In the end, when I had completed my diploma, I was the top student. So I kicked all their butts basically. But that was me always wanting to achieve high and um be successful.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Where did the idea of becoming a chef come from?

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Uh I just think it was the the passion of food and cooking, and um I think I just took that to another level, wanted to make a career out of it. But it also gave me a lot of the inspiration working with other like-minded people just kept inspiring me more and more. So I just wanted to keep going with it. And I would have, as I said, I would have loved to have gone overseas, but life took another change, another turn. It takes four years to finish trade school and then it became a fully fledged. It did then. Yeah. Uh seems to be fast-tracked a lot of the time now. Um, I don't think a lot of chefs nowadays learn all the basic principles that we had to learn back in the day. I was really fortunate to work in an international hotel that had fine dining, a la carte, functions, a lada, butcher, pastry, everything. And we did time in every section, so it was really, really cool to learn. Do you have a favourite section? I think I loved functions the most because we got to do a lot of really good creative stuff. And when you saw it all come together and be part of that team, the buzz was just amazing. So even though your feet hurt, it's the team makes it worth it. The team makes it worth it, yeah. It was it was a lot of fun and I'm still friends with a lot of the people I worked with. Thirty years later, we still keep in touch. It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

And what do you think made that team so memorable?

SPEAKER_01 8:14

I think when you're working really crazy hours, they become your family. They become your support and you're there for each other. You know, good teamwork, you have to. Yeah, otherwise it doesn't work. So when you say long hours, what did that look like? So doing a split shift in the morning to cover l breakfast and lunch, and then working evenings to do dinner or functions. Working Christmas days, we missed a lot of you miss a lot of normal family celebrations when you have to work and you you can't just take a day off when it suits you. You have to work, you know, you've got that commitment there and you have to fulfil it.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Did you feel like it took time for people to take you seriously? Did you have to prove yourself?

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Oh, definitely. And I think it was even harder as a woman because you had to work twice as hard as a man. You're in a man's world, you had to be like them, basically. You had to carry heavy pots, you had to work hard and you could complain because no one listened. You had to you had to just do it. So we had to work harder as a woman to prove yourself in a man's world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Did you ever feel like there were things that men around you could do or say that you couldn't get away with?

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Nowadays I think it's a lot better. You can't discriminate anymore. Back in my day, there was a lot of sexual innuendo, there was discrimination, there were a lot of things were said and done and which really wasn't okay, but you had to just brush it off and just keep going. Doesn't make it okay, but that's just how it was at the time. Thankfully nowadays people don't have to deal with a lot of that anymore.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Did you find yourself changing how you were behaving at work because of the environment that you were in?

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Uh sometimes you you know, you had to roll with whatever was happening. Um, you had to be flexible. We love a good flex. Yes. Yes. You definitely had to be flexible. Um, because of the crazy hours you worked. Um, sometimes you'd be functioning on very little sleep. Uh but you just had to do your job and do it well.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Were there things you accepted back then that Lisa now would absolutely not put up with? Oh, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Yes, being being told what to do, when to do, how to do it, um I definitely would would have found my voice now and not put up with some of the things I had to put up with back then. Yeah, there were many, many times where you just had to do things even though you didn't want to. Yeah, I think as I've gotten older, I wouldn't put up with those things now as I did back then. I was quite timid, um, got on with the job, didn't want to rock the boat because because I didn't want to lose my job. But upon reflection, I've also gained a lot of respect because I was hard working and didn't falter or fail, didn't fall down in a heap and feel sorry for myself. I've got on with it. And that's created a lot of resilience and really and good hardworking ethics as well.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

I think there's a fine line between well, sometimes you just have to do the work. Yes. And I feel like sometimes now people say too early, I don't want to do that. But yeah. Don't have a really a leg to stand on yet. So it does take time to build up. You're gonna be good at something first and then when you're learning, it's very difficult to challenge.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

The more experience you get, the you're more able to speak up for yourself and know what's right, what's wrong, and what you're prepared to put up with and what you're not.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

So if you had a really crappy day in the kitchen, what made you turn up again the next day? Uh, we just had to show up.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

You're part of a team. If you don't show up, it makes the rest of the team have to work twice as hard. If you're committed to what you're doing, then you show up regardless. You know, you make it work. That's how we were taught. You just had to show up and you had to had to do the job no matter what.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Do you think you knew the difference back then though between being determined and putting up with too much?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

I knew there were times where I was pushing pushing the limits. Now I think I listen to my body and I'm a little more careful about what I agree to do and what I don't. I'll speak up if I feel something's not right or I feel that something can be done a different way or a better way of doing things.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Do you remember when you first started thinking, but I don't think I want to do this anymore? You mentioned the family and Yeah yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

So as a single woman, being a chef was amazing. It was fantastic. But with family, um, it became challenging. It was difficult to sustain the hours and support a family unit. So I had to work part-time over the years. Uh, while my kids were younger, I had, you know, had to change my role and be there for my kids, family, and also, you know, my husband as well. He was the main breadwinner. So what I did was kind of secondary. It worked for the best part of the time, but as the kids got older and I I guess I wanted more out of life, my attitude started to change. I felt like I needed more in my life. So I got to the point where after cooking for over 20 years, I felt that I was done, felt burnt out, and I needed to make some changes again. Uh, I think my life was evolving again, and I envisioned an ex at like 10 years into the future, and I thought, I don't, I don't want to be doing this again. Yeah, I just felt like I'd end up becoming bitter and an angry person. Yeah. So I just wanted to and wanted to make a change. So I did some research, still want to be creative, but something different, something that's not so taxing on my body and um gives me job satisfaction and and and feel good. Did a little bit more research and then I discovered beauty and I thought I can do this. This is what I want to do. So studied full time. I still had two kids at home and uh worked weekends in my last hospitality role. And six months of that I was really tired, but I felt so inspired because I just I knew that if I worked hard, I was going to make this happen. And um, it was a big year. Five weeks before I finished my course, my husband had a bit of a breakdown and decided that he didn't want to be married anymore. So it um it was a challenging time, but it made me more determined than ever. So I completed my course and excelled, started a new chapter again. So it was it was difficult, but I made it happen. Instead of falling in a heap, I um changed my life into a new direction and did really well at it. I rediscovered my passion for learning again. Maybe my dad was right all those years ago. Maybe I could have been a doctor or a nurse upon reflection, but um I discovered a passion for learning about the body and skin. So I feel like I've found my calling and I loved everything about beauty. A friend said that I've gone from making beautiful food to making people beautiful. I love that. I love that. I do too. I I just love the feeling of helping somebody feel good about themselves and help lift their self-esteem and make them feel good about themselves that makes me really happy and it gives me a lot of job satisfaction, knowing that I can change people's lives for the better.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Was there something when you started your first job in the beauty industry that felt very different from the work you'd done before?

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Oh yeah. Instead of juggling 20 things at once, it was one-on-one with someone and I loved that. It was a much calmer working environment, cleaner as well. I mean, didn't go home. Smelling smelling like a kitchen and garlic. I mean, garlic's on that. So we um yeah, it was it was good to be able to um have that connection with someone one-on-one and make a difference.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

How much of the job do you think is dealing with people rather than just doing the treatment?

SPEAKER_01 17:04

It's all it's an all-round experience. It's not just doing the job, not just doing someone's brows. It's about getting to know that person, finding that connection with them. You have to listen. A lot of active listening in my role. It's it's fascinating what you what you find out about people and the connection that you make with that person as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Is there anything from those years in the kitchen that you still use now in in your new job? I'm still a perfectionist. I want I mean that's a good thing. That's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

I want someone's brows to be on point and perfect. I want someone's skin to look amazing. I want them to have a great experience. So they walk away and they feel fantastic. You know, if they've got an issue, I want to help them. Uh and that and that makes me feel like I'm doing my job really well.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

And having changed direction more than once, are you less scared now of the idea that you might have to change again?

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Um interestingly, I feel really good with where I'm at right now. Um I think over the years I've discovered who I am and what I've wanted. It's been a journey along the way trying to figure out what's what. But I feel like I'm at a place now where I'm I'm I'm still learning every day. You know, I'm in my 50s now, so I don't have a long working life yet, or left, I should say. I still enjoy learning, we still do training, still love learning about new things. That passion I don't think will ever leave. And I don't I don't think I would make any further career changes. I think if anything, over time I'll eventually slow down. And, you know, I I kind of like that work-life balance now where I've I get to I go to work and I enjoy what I do. Uh I still work really hard, but on the on my downtime I do the things that I really like to enjoy as well. Family, friends, traveling and and just just doing the things that I love doing.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

So I think going to work now where work used to be all-consuming. Now work is more about supporting a lifestyle.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

But I love that balance that I have now. I think that's really important. Yeah. Yeah. Because you know what it's like not to have balance. I used to work 70 hours a week, plus that was really tough. Um, you don't have much of a life outside of work when it's like that. And it's really important to have a little bit more balance in your life where you can also focus on your relationships with your friends and your family, the people in your life. You know, you can't neglect all your relationships just because of work.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

What would you say to someone who's, you know, 30, 40, 50 thinking, oh shit, I picked the wrong thing. Is it too late to start again? What would you like to tell them?

SPEAKER_01 19:50

I'd say what inspires you enough to get out of bed? Um, find something that ins excites you or inspires you and see if you can look at career paths in that field. Don't be stuck in a job forever that bores you because life is too short. If you want to make a change, make the change. Like I feel like step outside of your comfort zone and continue to grow and figure out what you want.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Do you think that the year 11 version of Lisa would be very proud of the one that's sitting here on the couch today?

SPEAKER_01 20:21

I think she would be. I think she would feel like, wow, you actually did it. You actually made something for yourself. And even though you've overcome a lot of obstacles in your life and there have been a lot of challenging moments, I think year 11 Lisa would be very proud now.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Yeah. Do you work with a lot of younger people in your industries over the years? Uh I do.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

I have worked with really young people uh in different roles, and I think a lot of those younger women are still discovering who they are and what they want. I can be quite supportive, be a bit of a mentor at times. At the moment, I feel like where I'm at now, I'm I'm respected for what I've done and where I'm at, um, how hard I work. That is recognized.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

It does make me feel good. Do you think there's a bit of a difference in the levels of resilience, maybe the generations that you're seeing coming through now versus what working weeks?

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Definitely. There is a lot less resilience nowadays. I feel that from when I grew up, we were able to deal with, you know, harder situations and problem solving. Whereas nowadays a lot of young people will kind of give up quickly or they don't have the the will to figure something out or or work through it and they just give up. It's there are a lot of exceptions to the rule. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

But I do think uh in general the resilience is less. And how do you think that teamwork has changed over the decades? I I've been working for just over ten years and I've seen Probably two versions of change pre-COVID, post-COVID kind of teamwork changes. Have you experienced that over your working life? I I feel like people did work as a team more so.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

I think since since COVID, people are a little bit more self-absorbed. It's all about them. You know, they don't tend to respect the teamwork um attitude anymore.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

What kind of thoughts or advice do you have for leaders that are trying to build up some of that great teamwork you were talking about? Like you were lighting up, your face is smiling, you're talking about your team. You're working 70 hours, but you're enjoying being part of a team and not letting the team down. I can't say I've heard that very often, to be honest. Um not nowadays, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Most people don't care. They want to take a day off, take a sickie. They just take it off. They don't care. Team building is great from a manager's point of view. I know you can you can find people's strengths and weaknesses and support each other and help each other. Putting a little bit of fun back into the workplace at times as well, like having a laugh and not everything being so serious, take a little bit of time out to to do some fun stuff. And people tend to relax a little bit more about that. And and I think it's really encouraging and supportive. Yeah. I I've found that through my own experience when when things like that happen, it does bring the team closer because you you value each other a little bit more than when you when you get to know them a little better on a more personal level rather than just work-oriented.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not really a fan of the ticks the box kind of team building things. No. No. I definitely love a bit of a stuff outside the box. Yeah, definitely. I don't know why a lot of leaders don't take the time or are maybe even worried to bring fun into the workplace because it might seem like you're taking your job less seriously or you're not as I know people always look at me, I'm a little bit of a silly goose, obviously. And you know, I get comments all the time that I do things differently, but I do things the way that I like to work and and I like to live my life. Yes. Um but I guess I have the confidence to do things differently.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

And it is all about confidence as well. And for but th for those people who, I don't know, maybe take their job a little bit too seriously, what would you like to tell them? Like you've you've moved so much, you've worked with so many different types of people.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

I think it's important to relax sometimes and just have a laugh and not take everything so seriously. You've it's important to get the jobs done well, but you also want to enjoy it. You've got to have still maintain the passion for the job. Because if you c if you don't, it becomes such a chore. You know, if you get to a point where you're waking up and you're going, I don't want to go to work today, or I don't want to do this, I don't want to do that, then you've lost your inspiration and your passion. It's time to either make a change, you've got to do it differently, because you can't continue to work like that because you can't become bitter and angry and you're not giving your best.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

And there's serial complainers about things. But they don't want to do anything to change. Correct. Yeah. If someone's listening and they wanted to do one thing today that would make their life a little bit better, what would you tell them to do? In regard to work. Or anything, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Anything. Do something fun. Just get out and do something fun and have a laugh. Try and enjoy the moment. Because if you don't, it's life life's gonna tick by really quickly and you don't want to look back with regret.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

And what does what does fun look like for you?

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Oh, fun for me.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Well not this bot, not this interview.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

No, this is actually good. Taking me right out of my comfort zone, but this has been great. For me, my my fun is music. I love music, I love going to a gig, love traveling, I love an adventure. So for me, jumping on a plane and going somewhere where I've never been before and exploring with my partner in crime is the best. I love it. It's just about seeing and doing things, having experiences, experiences that you've never had before. That's what inspires me. It, you know, it's a big world out there and I just want to see it all.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

If you could get everyone listening to Change One Habit today, what would you recommend switching up? Switcherino.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Hmm. Do something different. Even if it's just a little thing in your day, if um if if you're not happy doing what you're doing, just try something else. Just look at look at other options. If you if you're not happy with your life and you wanna if you want to make a change, you can't expect any change if you don't make a change. Oh yeah. Amen. Yes. Um I've I've discovered life is passing by very quickly, and it's important to do the things that you really want to do because otherwise one day you wake up and it'll be too late. So make the most of every opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

I love that. What really drains you the most or sucks out the most energy out of work?

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Uh with work, what drains me the most is KPIs. You're speaking my language. So KPIs, they're often counterintuitive to the services that we provide. So business objectives such as rebooking rates, upselling, customer spend, etc., where it's all business profit focus rather than customer experience satisfaction. You know, if you if a customer has a great experience with you, they are likely to return again and again. Yeah. You know, is the customer concerned about the rebooking rate? You know, I want that customer to have the best experience and want to come back and see me. It's often the focus, every business needs to be profitable.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Um, but sometimes I think sometimes it can be just really profit-driven rather than what the customer is experiencing. And I don't think you can put a a dollar value on that, even though there is.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

I think that takes rather than focusing on that so much these days, I give the customer the best experience I possibly can. And I feel that they enjoy that, I enjoy that. But then that's also reflected in my work. Rather than focusing negatively on the KPIs, I just kind of go, they're gonna happen naturally if you do your job well. Yeah. Oh, I get that.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

I rolled my eyes pretty hard back when you KPIs. Me too. D do you think sometimes maybe it's the business or management's way of trying to control things because they don't know what it's actually like on the ground?

SPEAKER_01 28:56

I think if if a manager has come from grassroots, definitely they understand it. But I think a lot of managers have something to prove and they often forget what it's like to be in that position. It's all about the numbers and ticking boxes. Whereas, you know, when you're dealing with people, you can't be that focused.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

Of course, you it it's it's in your role, but you don't make it the main focus. Your my objective is to give the customer a great service and enjoy that experience.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

I get the point. I understand you need to have performance metrics of some kind. But you're right, when they become the main focus, it really eats away the passion and love for the work as well. Yes. Yeah, definitely. And why do you think it's important to be passionate and love your work?

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Because that's the reason you're getting up out of bed. It's giving you the purpose to go to work and um do your job well. You've got to be passionate and driven to to want to keep doing it. Otherwise you're wasting your time.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

I think we're very blessed that we don't have to, like some other generations of people in other countries, who have to work for money because defeat and house. I think we're very lucky where we get the choice, which is why I'm probably even less okay with people complaining. Yeah. It's like you literally have so many options, just go change.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Exactly. And I and I feel that when someone is continually complaining about their job or they're not showing up for their job, if you're not passionate about it, find something else. Find something that you want to really do, something that makes you want to get up out of bed.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Oh, shame, I enjoy arguing. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Lisa. You really enjoyed this conversation. You are well. I shall now go look at my eyebrows that look fantastic. Thank you very much. I shall shake your hand and say goodbye. Thank you, Anna.